C-clip Fell Out

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C-clip Fell Out

Postby jayhawkclint » Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:08 pm

Got a really loud screeching from the right rear whenever I would go around corners. Had to ride the brakes a little to get the sound to go away. Thought it was worn or glazed brakes, so ordered new pads. Pulled the tire off and saw that the pads were still really thick and had about a 1/4" or so before the sensor touched the rotor.

After investigating some more, discovered a lot of end play in the axle and could rub the rotor on the inside of the caliper bracket. Removed the caliper bracket and the axle shaft slid all the way out! Drat. Put a pan under the diff and pulled the cover to find my c-clip stuck to the magnet along with some shavings.

After draining, cleaning and inspection, everything looks pretty good. R&P is like new. Side gears showing some wear, but it is uniform and even; no jagged edges or chipped teeth. I suspect the side gears are what is producing the shavings, and I'm wondering if it isn't just from the gears loading and unloading with the axle play that was there while the c-clip was missing. Axle ends look good.

So, what are the chances I just put in a new c-clip and drive it? Anyone else here ever have one fall out on them?

Really thankful I had disc brakes to retain the axle shaft - could have been catastrophic on the highway in traffic!
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Postby Jongo88 » Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:43 pm

Have you had any work done in the past? There is no way for the c-clip to just fall out. If it did there is something wrong. Look at the spider gear on that side to make sure it is not broke. Look at the diff lock pin to make sure it is there and in the right place. Look at the spider gear on that side where the c-clip goes and make sure it holds the clip.
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Postby jayhawkclint » Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:25 pm

Other than changing brake pads occasionally and diff fluid two years ago, rear has never been touched. Not sure how the clip came out. I'd like to know before I drive it again. As far as I can tell with the flashlight, everything looks good other than a little high mileage wear on the side gears.
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Postby jayhawkclint » Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:59 pm

I can push on the end of the axle shaft and it goes in so far that it is riding on the cross shaft. At that point, the c-clip easily falls out. Not sure where the slop is yet.
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Postby Jongo88 » Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:05 pm

That cross shaft wore at all? That is what holds tha axle from going in so the c-clip can't come out. Is the end of the axle still there?
Last edited by Jongo88 on Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby F9K9 » Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:13 pm

Okay guys, I am getting lost here. I have been messing with heep axles a lot more than ours. What are you two calling a C clip?
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Postby Jongo88 » Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:14 pm

A clip that looks like a "C". It holds the axle in..
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Postby blaz » Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:23 pm

I find pics are easier to understand! :lol:

http://www.fullsizechevy.com/forums/gen ... -axle.html
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Postby jayhawkclint » Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:20 pm

Jacked up both tires, put the truck in neutral, then rotated the carrier back and forth. I can see now there is a good sized portion of the cross shaft that has been worn down. Going to order a new cross shaft at minimum, probably take the carrier down while I'm at it and look at the thrust washers on the side gears.
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Postby killian96ss » Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:46 pm

As mentioned above, there is no way for the c-clip to fall out if the cross shaft is still there which means one of two things.
Either the c-clip was never installed by the factory :shock: or somebody serviced this rear end before you bought the truck and forgot to put the c-clip back in when they reassembled everything.

Get a new cross shaft, install it, and make sure to put some red or blue Locktite (thread locker) on the cross shaft lock bolt so that it doesn't back out under normal use.

Is there any damage to the axle ends where the c-clips go?

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Postby jayhawkclint » Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:15 pm

No. I'm here to verify first hand that the c-clip can just fall out. The c-clip was installed, I pulled it off the magnet. The axle had no work done to it other than I changed the fluid 2 years ago. No one else works on any of my vehicles. I'm looking at the carrier and sliding the axle back and forth and watching the play. Here is what I observe: If the clutch pack or thrust washers on the side gears wear enough to allow movement toward the case, wider gap between the c-clip retainer indent and the cross shaft is created whereby the c-clip can literally just fall out. After that happens, lateral movements of the axle as I went around corners caused the hardened steel pass side axle shaft to abrade the cross shaft chewing it up a little. My diff is shot, but >150k miles of use and abuse, so not complaining too much - I've definitely got my money out of it. Looking at interchange options at this point. 10 bolt are so plentiful that I think I'm going to just head down to the bone yard for a complete runner rather than try to rebuild mine piece by piece.
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Postby F9K9 » Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:17 pm

May as well upgrade to a 98-04 ZR2 rear diff that has the disc brakes.
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Postby HenryJ » Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:20 pm

f9k9 wrote:...upgrade to a 98-04 ZR2 rear diff that has the disc brakes.
My plan exactly, when or if the time comes.
As long as you are 3.73 geared , it is an option.

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Postby blaz » Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:35 pm

HenryJ wrote:
f9k9 wrote:...upgrade to a 98-04 ZR2 rear diff that has the disc brakes.
My plan exactly, when or if the time comes.
As long as you are 3.73 geared , it is an option.


And if you are 3.42 find a five speed blazer.
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Postby killian96ss » Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:26 pm

jayhawkclint wrote:No. I'm here to verify first hand that the c-clip can just fall out.

If your c-clips are falling out then there is something seriously wrong with your carrier. :?:
The cross pin is the only thing holding the c-clips in there and it would have to be pretty messed up to allow a c-clip to fall out.
C-clips can break allowing the axle to walk out, but I have to say after 20 years of racing and numerous 10 bolt rebuilds this is the only time I have heard of a clip falling out. :?

My vote would also be for a disc brake equipped 8.5" 10 bolt out of a late model ZR2. :wink:

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Postby HenryJ » Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:03 pm

This used to be much more common. There is a reason that NHRA requires C-clip eliminator kits (axle retention devices) on all but a few in the stock classes.

I have had a couple throw c-clips in the fleet. One was a bad diff failure and the other just badly tempered side gears. The axle end wore against the pin and allowed enough for one clip to fall out. I found it as yours, stuck to the magnet.

Another common failure is when the retention bolt/ pin for the center pin does not get properly torqued or thread locked. I have found them on the magnet too. Either broken , or just came out.

The disc brakes do take some of the "danger" out of it. At least the axle doesn't come sliding out. I have seen that more than twice. Once at the strip.

Just be glad that is is much less common these days.

I think I would be looking for a G80 equipped ZR2 axle. The used supply should be getting good now. Plan on about $1000.

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Postby s10 again » Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:40 pm

I too have seen c-clips that have fallen off. Once the axle shaft tried to slide out of a low rider and luckily the tire was retained by the fender. Talk about smoke!!! I mean there is a reason that the clips get thrown but sometimes it can take some investigation to figure out why. If you go for a repair after the fix make sure to test it out before putting the diff cover back on just encase there is more than one reason the clip fell out.

Now I have a question not trying to hi-jack but what is the advantage of the ZR2 rear end over ours?

Chris.
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Postby HenryJ » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:11 pm

s10 again wrote:...what is the advantage of the ZR2 rear end over ours?
Bigger stronger.

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Postby s10 again » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:58 pm

Is it a bigger stronger ring and pinion, axle shaft, splines, housing or all the above. Will they bolt in without modification. I think I read somewhere that they are wider.

I ask because I'm always in junk yards and scrap yards so if I spot one and get a deal on it I'll snag it. In scrap yards a rear end is a rear end they don't know or care if it is more valuable than any other. A scrap yard down the road is getting a ton of cash for clunkers stuff in I might get lucky!!!


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Postby F9K9 » Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:20 pm

Direct "bolt in"! That part of our CC frames and the extended cab frames are identical. It gets confusing from the firewall forward. They might be wider and eliminate the need for spacers to make the frt and rear match. Outside of that, you are "good to go"! Everything will line up. You may want new shocks since both will mount aft of the axle.
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Postby HenryJ » Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:05 am

s10 again wrote:Is it a bigger stronger ring and pinion, axle shaft, splines, housing or all the above. Will they bolt in without modification. I think I read somewhere that they are wider.
All of the above. Wider to match the front track width.

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Postby JaVeRo » Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:44 am

I have one truck that has more end play in the axle than it should. It may have something to do with 170k miles of mail route.

What can I do now to avoid the same problem above. I put new axle bearings in it a month or so ago. The cross shaft looked good but I didn't take it completely out.

Is there a way of shimming the side gear to take out the slop?

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Postby HenryJ » Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:11 am

JaVeRo wrote:Is there a way of shimming the side gear to take out the slop?
It could be possible. The side gear shims are available, but I am not sure what thicknesses and if any choice is available.

Most of the wear I see is on the axle end, groove and splines. The C-clip / washer and center pin wear too. I usually don't see appreciable wear in the C-clip seat, although I have not really looked for it either.

There is a spider gear set / differential rebuild kit available. It has side gears, pin, axle gears, etc. The whole kit runs around $150. I would be tempted to go that route on a high mile rig with an open differential.

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Postby killian96ss » Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:35 pm

So, just how much wear on the center shaft is needed for a c-clip to fall out? :?:
Do you have a picture of the worn down cross shaft?
I'm just curious since I have never seen this happen, plus I want to make sure this never happens to me! :wink:

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Postby jayhawkclint » Sat Sep 26, 2009 3:02 am

I'll try to get some pictures before I take it all apart. Hoping to get some time to work on it again later today.
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Postby HenryJ » Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:33 am

Get a picture of the wear on the axle end and c-clip too. All the cases I have seen had multiple contributing factors.

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Postby jayhawkclint » Sat Sep 26, 2009 1:02 pm

Pass axle is inserted and touching the cross shaft. Note the gap where the c-clip can easily be inserted and removed without removing the cross shaft:
Link oversize images-HJ

This is the end of the pass side axle:
Image

This is the c-clip. Nary a scratch; it just plain fell out:
Image
Last edited by jayhawkclint on Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby HenryJ » Sat Sep 26, 2009 1:06 pm

You are due for some new axles. You can really see the mushrooming on the end of that one. The groove looks pretty sloppy too.

You are going to have to ease up on the cornering. That or swap in a 9" ;)

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Postby jayhawkclint » Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:18 pm

What you see in the pic is just a little bit of filing from rubbing against the cross shaft. The ends of the axles are beveled. The very edge of the bevel has some filing, but the flat portion of the axle end doesn't appear to be worn too bad. I pulled the driver's side and calipered the ends of the two axles. I doubt there's a .001" difference. Both c-clips fit into the grooves of both axles about the same. After pulling the carrier, the slop is definitely in the side gear, not the axles.
Last edited by jayhawkclint on Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby jayhawkclint » Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:19 pm

Abrasion on the cross shaft. I am 99% sure this happened after the c-clip fell out and later movement of the axle occurred while cornering:


Is this lip correct on the back side of the clutch pack? This is the passenger side. The driver's side doesn't have this lip:

There is a 100k limit for posted images-HJ
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Postby jayhawkclint » Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:49 pm

Okay, playing with loading/unloading the side gears. Could it be as simple as the pass side clutch pack being worn down much, much more than the driver's side? The whole clutch pack/side gear assembly is sort of spring loading off center toward th passenger side. I can push it back toward the driver's side, but as soon as I let go it goes back toward passenger.
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Re: C-clip Fell Out

Postby Horsehammerr » Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:19 pm

What does it take to put a pinion rebuild kit in ? :?: Or i guess it's a spider gear/differential rebuild kit.
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Re: C-clip Fell Out

Postby Horsehammerr » Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:40 am

Well OK , never mind. :blink:
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Re: C-clip Fell Out

Postby Horsehammerr » Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:24 am

Put in new Spider Gear set , Axle Bearings and Seals . Big improvement for Posi-Lock activation . Locks in instantly.
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