Shudder during acceleration hauling/towing

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Shudder during acceleration hauling/towing

Post by green02crew »

I searched but couldn't come up with something similar. When towing/hauling, the CC shudders accelerating from a dead stop till 2nd. If the trailer is heavily weighted, it will shudder under normal throttle. If the trailer is light, it will shudder under heavy throttle only. It does not do this without weight in the truck or behind it. No loss of power or noises, just a shaking feeling similar to that of tractor tires at a slow speed on pavement, if that is a good description. It stops once into 2nd gear. Tranny?
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Post by HenryJ »

Have you made any modifications that would affect the transmission? (programmed, shift kit, fluid, etc.)
How many miles on it?
What tire size and was it programmed to correct for it?
What gear ratio?

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Post by green02crew »

I have a B&M Tranny Cooler, Corvette Servo, Longer Pin, Billet 4th, firmer shifts through programming, tow/haul mode, ~70k miles, 30x9.5 tires and it is corrected for them, also running 3.73s.
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Post by HenryJ »

Sounds like a good combination. When was the last service? Flushing all the fluid and replacing the filter?

Towing or extreme duty I service mine every 25k miles.

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Post by green02crew »

Last service was at 50k, so less than 20k ago.
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Post by F9K9 »

Probably unrelated but, the trailer and wgt in the truck is changing your rear pinion angle slightly. My heep started to do this when I put the hard top back on. I adjusted the angle and it cured it for awhile. Recently went back to soft top and the shudder returned but, I couldn't dial out the shudder. I replaced the drive shaft with a custom double cardan one and the shudder disappeared. I am going to rebuild the oem shaft for a spare. I suspect that I will find bad u-joints when I tear into it. Hopefully it's your u-joints and not the tranny.
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Post by green02crew »

Hmm that is a possibility but I have had less tongue weight on the truck so that it squated next to none. That was a landscaping trailer with 2 4wheelers, double axle trailer so the weight was on the back. I tried different combinations of loading the weight (not necessarily on purpose) and all same result, shudder.
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Post by F9K9 »

Well, I reviewed your mods and the squatting may actually be bringing your pinion angle closer to stock. I made a stab at it anyway. :wink:
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Post by HenryJ »

Not a bad idea to rule out the U-joints. Under a load the symptoms of bad joints may be more pronounced.

I would be tempted to drop the pan if you still think you are having transmission problems. If there is nothing in the pan that indicates a problem and the fluid change does not improve things, then I guess you wait for things to get worse. A cracked sun shell or bad needle bearings are common failures. Start putting funds away for that rebuild. Have your $1500 in the bank. That day will come for all of us eventually.

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Post by green02crew »

Haha that is true! Thanks for taking a stab!
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Post by F9K9 »

Brule, what about pulling the rear DS and doing a short run with it in 4 wd? I know that it's slip yoke design will cause a loss of the transfer case's ATF but, this is a common test on heeps to isolate problems. Another wild arse stab but, I like trouble shooting these issues.
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Post by roadrunner »

HenryJ wrote:Start putting funds away for that rebuild. Have your $1500 in the bank. That day will come for all of us eventually.
:shock: Good luck getting it done for that amount unless you do it yourself! Had mine done two years ago and it set me back $2300. Not at a tranny shop (see theft ring) either. Cheapest quote of two dealerships and two local small shops I could find.
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Post by HenryJ »

I have a pretty good relationship with a local shop here. Prices range from $1250-$1400 on the last few I have had done.
That is just the rebuild on a clean transmission delivered to them. I flush the cooler and do the install myself. They trust my install for warranty purposes. Normally they do the installs to protect themselves.
You may be right that closer to $2k would be nice to have waiting. Prices may vary depending upon your location and relationship with the builder. I went to school with my transmission guru :mg:

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Post by roadrunner »

Trust me if the shop needs to do the R&I along with the rebuild the figure I quoted is on the conservative side. Wish when I was running my shop I could've gotten people to bring me "clean" trannys to rebuild with sufficient knowledge they'd do a proper after-install. How great would that have been!!!!
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Post by green02crew »

So I take it this is uncommon? I'd hate to have to do a rebuild on it. Especially so soon with only 70k miles. That just seems like low mileage to do a rebuild.
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Post by HenryJ »

I have had them go with as few as 60k miles , and last as long as 160k miles in the fleet. The way they are treated, even with the best I can do they end up being rebuilt.

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Post by roadrunner »

Mine had 75k at rebuild but then I got it stuck in the snow and didn't stop trying to get out till it was too late.
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Post by F9K9 »

Pull the rear ds, take it for a short spin under the conditions that create the shudder. Top off the TC when you get home. You will have either eliminated a possible cause or found the cause in 10 mins.
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Post by green02crew »

I have never pulled a driveshaft before. I am hesitant to do it. If I wait for something to fail, would it be catastrophic failure?
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Post by HenryJ »

The transmission may exhibit worse symptoms prior to failure. Slipping, inability to shift to over drive, no reverse, slam shifts, second gear only and others are examples. It could quit completely, but that has yet to happen to me. Many will display the code of death P1870 IIRC.

Start saving your money. Hopefully it will last until funds are ready.

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Post by F9K9 »

green02crew wrote:I have never pulled a driveshaft before. I am hesitant to do it. If I wait for something to fail, would it be catastrophic failure?
If, you were afraid of tackling the drive shaft and removing 4 bolts and sliding it out the rear then you definitely will not like rebuilding a transfer case and tackling the rear differential. My rear drive shaft let go at about 25 mph and not on some hairy rock climb. It was in town on a lunch break.

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Just remove the bolts on this end of the DS, make sure you don't lose the caps that will become exposed. I tape them and then slide out the other end from the transfer case.

Image

I may have removed a ds once almost forty yrs ago but, everything else was a first for me. The internet is a wonderful thing. Brule and google search is how I learned.

Brule is leaning towards your tranny going bad. I probably would have too if, this didn't happen to me a couple of weeks ago. It's worth a shot just to try it. Heck paying someone to perform five minutes of labor and then reinstalling it would be cheaper than waiting on failure and eliminating a possible cause.
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Post by green02crew »

Stopped by napa, new ujoints are only $25 so I picked them up. I didn't have much time but I attempted to tear into the rear and was unable to get the ujoint to come out. Is it possible that its rusted in place or am I missing something after taking the two collars off?
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Post by HenryJ »

They do press firmly into the yoke. A prybar between the yoke and joint is usually needed to separate the two.

Did I miss something? Did you have a bad U-joint? No need to fix them if they are smooth and lubricated.

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Post by F9K9 »

HenryJ wrote:.............Did I miss something? Did you have a bad U-joint? No need to fix them if they are smooth and lubricated.
Image
Don't replace them because they might be bad. Yank the DS and go for a drive to see if, you still have the shudder.
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Post by green02crew »

Related? This is the front diff area:

Image

Image

Looks like some fluid is leaking. Enough to be of concern? It was wet but not to the point of dripping, although close to it. Both sides, driver and passenger, are the same way.
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Post by HenryJ »

green02crew wrote:Related? This is the front diff area
Not really likely from your description. Unless your front cable is stuck and your front end engaged all the time.
Those are not under load unless it is in 4x4.
Looks like you will be replacing the axles seals eventually. Keep an eye on the front diff oil level. When they start making a mess on the ground or need refilling between service intervals, it is time to replace the seals. If not sooner.

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Post by F9K9 »

Clean it up a tad and then start monitoring for the origin. We are no where close to a panic state of alarm yet. Plenty of threads that can assist you in checking fluid levels.
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