Started overheating......Q's needing answers.

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Started overheating......Q's needing answers.

Postby Torskdoc » Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:16 pm

2002 Crewcab ZR-5. Approx 85,000 now. Purchased in 2007 with 39500.

SYMPTOMSNoticed about 2 weeks ago the overflow tank was empty, so refilled it. No external leaks, hoses dry, radiator dry (no leaks on cardboard underneath. Truck has been stuttering and bucking on slight uphill grades in 4th gear with the RPM's under 2K, and downshifting to 3rd raises RPM's and power is back with less stuttering for the past 6 months, leading me to believe the spyder or fuel pump wa on it's way out. Today I was out and about and noticed the temps were 2 marks above 210 and turning the heater ON FULL HIGH (TEMP and FAN with selector set to VENT's) DID NOT DECREASE the temps. Got it home, tripped the lever on the cap (truck running ) and watched the tank. Nothing backed up into it. ReCycled the trip lever. Still nothing. Turned cap 1/2 of travel, still nothing, so removed the cap. Radiator dry about 1/3 way down. Filled with 50/50 mix Prestone. Ran rpms to 1500 and kept adding until full. Vented Prestone kit cap, solid 50/50 mix. OIL LEVEL IS TOTHE TOP OF THE NORMAL ZONE (Changed the oil with Walmart Full Synth 10W-30 and AC DELCO PF-52 last month. Been running this combo since I bought the truck with no problems) with no indications of Antifreeze in OIL. I did drain a cup or so of oil from the crankcase an hour after shutting it down to let it stratify if there was any water in there. NO Antifreeze in the OIL. Engine does have an intermittent miss/stumble @ idle that I have not been able to identify for last 2 years. And it does stumble slightly off the line from a dead stop unless I power brake to approx 900rpm in gear.


RELEVENT PARTS REPLACED
Since I bought the truck in 2007 I've replaced the DexCool with Straight 50/50 after flushing repeatedly with the drains open and installed a prestone kit. New hoses, 170* thermostat, and electric fans from Junkyard in 2008. Went back to stock fan setup with new H.D. clutch back in May this year when I replaced all 3 motor Mounts. With electric fans set to 160* it was running 3 marks below 210 with AC on in summer temps (Md. DC Area). With Stock setup, Temps are now 1 to 1.5 marks below 210, Temps with AC now @ 210 on the mark. I may go back to Electric fans, but get something better fitting. Trans temp (sensor at Radiator output) tracks the Antifreeze temps but about 40* lower, except when AC on then it climbs to Engine temps.

SYNOPSIS
So basically we have NO EXTERNAL LEAKS, Bucking and stuttering at low RPM(<2K) under load, and a full recovery tank of antifreeze sucked up in less than a month. Oil Level is Full with no indications of water in oil. New Fan Clutch, Antifreeze changed yearly, Thermostat and cap are fine, but are 4 years old (change is due soon).


Which leads me to the questions .
1.) With the external connections all dry, and no visible leaks, and no exhaust smoke at steady state unloaded (in park) 3K rpm, or on Deacceleration, what are the chances that the Lower intake manifold Gasket is leaking into the combustion chambers? (I'm thinking pretty high.) :idea:

2.) Not having torn a 4.3 down before, except to replace the Fuel Pressure Regulator, am I gonna have to disconnect the Fuel spyder from the fule lines or can it be moved out of the way?

3.) Does the Distributor have to be removed to remove the lower 1/2 of the manifold to replace the gaskets?

4.) If the general consensus is the Intake Gasket, which is the most recommended set from FELPRO. The . MS 98002 T OR the MS 95817. I really can't see paying almost $40. for a set of Valve cover gaskets! Unless there is a difference in the intake gasket construction.

5.) Are replacement INTAKE bolts "REQUIRED"? or just recommended? Are they one time use due to construction and a set stretching strength? Or is this another FELPRO "lets sucker the folks into another $30. for bolts they really don't need?



Now that the wife is retired, and I'm on permanent disability, This crew along with the '95 Jimmy will probably be the last vehicles I ever own. I don't plan on getting rid of either. Not when i can get between 24 and 26 on the Hwy in the Jimmy on a long trip. 62mph, 13" on the vac guage and coasting down every hill I can. The ZR-5 gets 22-23 doing the same. Maybe fixing the problem will get the wife out of the Jimmy and into the ZR-5.

Thanks in advance for any and all help.

Larry
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Re: Started overheating......Q's needing answers.

Postby HenryJ » Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:58 pm

I think you are spot on...Intake gaskets. Don't forget to check the cat. If it is plugging from ingesting the oil and water it might be on the way out.

There is a good thread with step by step instructions:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5241&p=89074
This one has pictures:
http://www.handymanlyness.com/archives/ ... Jimmy.html

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Re: Started overheating......Q's needing answers.

Postby Torskdoc » Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:52 am

Thanks HenryJ. The part that gets me is pulling the distributor. If it was an HEI or points unit, I wouldn't be having so much gas over it. But then afterwards I have to take it to a shop and have a "relearn" done thru the computer. I really hate having to go to a shop or dealership. It's like pulling all your teeth with no novacaine.

Now I have to convince her highness to cut loose the funds. On 2nd thought, taking it in for a relearn isn't so painful compared to that.
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Re: Started overheating......Q's needing answers.

Postby HenryJ » Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:55 pm

You don't have to phase these like the V-8. Ours is locked. As long as you get it set on number one correctly, bolt it down and you are in time :) easy-peasy.

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Re: Started overheating......Q's needing answers.

Postby HenryJ » Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:57 pm

If you do get in a situation where you need to phase one on a v-8, drop me a note. I will loan you AutoTap to do it.

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Re: Started overheating......Q's needing answers.

Postby JaVeRo » Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:54 pm

Are you sure it's not the heater core leaking?
Just a thought.

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Re: Started overheating......Q's needing answers.

Postby Torskdoc » Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:59 am

James. Not the heater core. No smell of Antifreeze from vents, and nothing wet inside the truck. I DID find some weeping at the manifold/head joint above #6 tho. once i started pulling ancillary stuff off. I think I'd rather stick a lb. of C-4 in the cab and light it off rather than take the dash out and replace.

Good thing to know about the 4.3L,, not having to phase them. I'll let you all know how it went. SWMBO (She who must be obeyed) cut loose to replace the gaskets, bolts, ALL HOSES, Cap, Thermostat, Oil &Filter and Green antifreeze. I was looking just to get the gaskets and bolts plus fluids with the other stuff later.


Off to the parts store.......

Larry
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Re: Started overheating......Q's needing answers.

Postby HenryJ » Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:58 am

Oh, the bolts. Torque is very small at 15 inlb for the upper intake, IIRC. I think they recommend new bolts since any defects in the threads might make them difficult to thread and not get them tight? Your choice, I have gone both ways with and without new ones.

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Re: Started overheating......Q's needing answers.

Postby Torskdoc » Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:51 am

These are the lower intake to head bolts. Supposedly they are what's called "torque to yield" or something like that. One time use as they permanently stretch on the 1st go round.

Why take a chance, she's paying for it, go for it while I have the $$! Parts ordered go pick them up in an hour, Hood is off (I hate working around that support rod!).
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Re: Started overheating......Q's needing answers.

Postby Torskdoc » Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:54 am

I replaced the regulator back in may when I did the motor mounts. Took longer to get the electricals disconnected than to install it on the Injector housing. No problem with the upper bolts. Gonna try to take it all off together (upper and lower). Why couldn't GM make the intake and injector set up like Edelbrock??? (Don't answer.....rhetorical question!)
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Re: Started overheating......Q's needing answers.

Postby Torskdoc » Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:53 am

Spent all of saturday Afternoon tearing it down, and cleaning everything. I pulled the Intake in one piece, then opened the top 1/2 just to replace the gaskets (which were included in the intake set. Nice of Felpro). Sat eve was spent in tub of hot water with epsom salts! AHHHHHH!.

Sunday put it back together, and filled coolant system with plain water and Peak Coolant flush and cleaner. Back when I junked the Deathcool (5yrs ago), I just flushed it with fresh water for an hour with the motor running. It's not losing coolant now, but it has a WICKED Miss and the SES light is going bonkers.


Kept getting a P0305, so replaced all the NGK's in it with AUTOLITE AP605's. Miss is a lot better, but SES came back on after clearing them at Advance auto. Now I'm getting a P0173 and P0305. The scanner says P0173=Bank 1 too lean, which would correlate with #5 missing. I really don't feel like tearing the top 1/2 of the manifold off again or yet. Cleared those codes and as soon as I got to 15mph or so the SES light came back on. It stays steady up to about 25mph or so and then goes into once a second blink mode. Once speed drops below 30mph it goes steady again. (I think this is from the 0173 or related codes. I've only got the two codes in this round of SES TAG. So I got 2 cans of seafoam, 1 in tank and one down the T. Body. Besides I used up all the $$ alloted for the Intake job and the cheapest spyder @ Advance is the DELPHI MFI @ $320.00. Gotta save up for that. Or I can go to the junkyard and TRY and find a Gen 2 with the spyder in it (within 2 days of arrival 100% of spyders in 4.3's are gone! Popular part.

Overall I can live with the miss to an extent. I don't do long haul stuff with it anymore, just hauling the mower around once a week and to the dump one or twice a month. The rest of the time I take the Jimmy when it's home.
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Re: Started overheating......Q's needing answers.

Postby Torskdoc » Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:46 am

Finished the Radiator Flush after 75 miles in 2 days of running up and down :panic: the 5 mile Interstate connector to I695 next to the house. 5 years after getting rid of the Deathcool, and yearly flushes with the prestone quicky 15 minute stuff, I can say the Deathcool sludge is :x TENACIOUS :twisted: !!! I think I got at least 80-90% of it finally out. Even tho the heater works fine, I got the most sludge from the heater inlet/outlet lines. Back flushing with apermanently mounted prestone kit to the htr outlet hose.

Opened up the right side block drain (they definately did NOT design these for access by old guys with hand tools from Sear's or Home Depot.) and it rained sludgy water for about 2 minutes then ran clear(I had the hose hooked up and running thru the prestone fitting). Ran the hose for another 10 minutes thru the block drain and then closed it back up, turning off the hose and letting the block empty be4 closing. Total flushing time was an hour for all of it. Still some minor staining on the internal transcooler end but of no consequence. The original hoses have a solid layer of sludge coating the internal walls from end to end completely around the circumference. No MORE!! New hoses (all 5) were installed with the intake, as was a new summit 180* thermostat, and a new Stant lever cap. 2 grounding straps were added from the radiator core to the radiator support. Now instead of 2-3V between the coolant and the chassis, I get about 10mv. :rock: So the electrolysis is under control. Coolant levels are stable, no leakage to the crankcase, or external leakage. Fan clutch was new in MAY.

Coolant temps sit @ 1 mark above the mid point mark between 100 and 210. With AC on MAX after 30 minutes temp climbs 1/2 a mark.

Oil pressure is good with 40psi @ idle and 50-55 off idle. This drops to about 25psi when hot @ idle and 45-50 off idle.

VACUUM gauge is STEADY idling @ 17 to 18inches. Deacceleration from speed (throttle closed) is 23-24. No wobbling, wiggling, or other anomalies noted on vacuum gauge. It doesn't drop off toward zero when kept at part throttle @ 2Krpm. Nor is there a concurrent spike like a intake valve leaking or bent.

As for the SES!!! I have 2 PCM's for it. The Factory stock one that came with it, and a wait4meperformance one that they did for me to tow with. They juggled the lockup so it stay's locked longer in 4th (or any gear), set the tire size to what I run 28.5", and a couple of other things I can't remember now so I can tow and not worry about it so much. With the Corvette servo's in the tranny, it snaps now 1-2, 2-3, and 3-4. I can push to almost the floor be4 the torque converter unlocks, and it doesn't hunt between 3rd and 4th towing.

On the Factory computer (FC) vs the aftermrket (W4M) Still throwing a P0173 and P0305 codes.
1.) I can swap them and light stays out as long as I don't run above 2K rpm or put it in gear.
2.) Once in gear.
A.) FC stays constantly lit until 25mph and then starts flashing constantly. It reverts to constant lit when under 30 and throttle closed. If left to idle long enough(about a minute) the light shuts off until the throttle is pushed ever so slightly again.
B.) W4M never stops flashing once it starts. Only way to shut it off is to clear it with a scanner or swap out with FC.

I actually ended up putting a whole can(Seafoam) in the tank, and put 1/2 of the 2nd can down the throttle body finally killing the engine and letting it sit for 20 minutes (I used to do the same with GM top end cleaner). The rest of the 2nd can went in the tank. Start up no problems except for the miss, and barely any smoke which to me indicates the combustion chambers and the valves are pretty clean considering. I could be wrong too.

Today the miss is still there but it feels like it may be getting better. Maybe it's wishful :!: thinking :?: or maybe the SEAFOAM is cutting thru the crap in the nozzles and opening them up. I'll get another can for when I fill up at the end of the week next week. Right now I've got a little over 3/4 tank (mine is actually pretty accurate for some reason) on the gauge, which correlates with the trip computer.

I'll keep you up to date on what it's doing.

Larry
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Re: Started overheating......Q's needing answers.

Postby HenryJ » Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:27 pm

Sounds like progress. Thanks for the detailed updates. :)

BTW, did you try swapping the plug and wire to rule out ignition? I think you did plugs so that is probably already the case ?

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Re: Started overheating......Q's needing answers.

Postby Torskdoc » Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:43 pm

I did the whole thing Before i even went and got plugs. The NGK on 5 had some crud on the center tip. Never was crazy about them. So I went with the Autolites as the AC Delco's he only had 3. And the Autolite had a rebate too.

Started at the coil and did the testing on it with a meter. Other than the occasional spark to my hand when moving the throttle (need a new coil too) it passed. Even with cleaning the top of the coil with Acetone, and the coil boot, then a good coat in and at the tip of the boot with Di-Electric grease, I'd get zapped. So now I reach from the front for the throttle instead of the right side. Ign module was removed from heat sink cleaned with brake cleaner, and regreased (Heatsink compound) and reinstalled. Coil wire and all the other wires (Summit 8mm Blue) had a pprox 22Kohms per foot. Fresh Di-Elec grease on all boots. The cap and rotor were a year old and cleaned with a drum roll on a dremel, lightly, then given a coat of DeOxit D-5 on the pins with a Qtip soaked in it. Also checked each cylinder with a timing light for operation, and the plugs before installing them.

I restore Tube and Solid state Receivers and Consoles for a Hobby, so the Electrical is similar, only higher voltage on the tube stuff (like 350 to 450V B+ and an amp or 3)! I wish I had my '63 Impala with the 283 Small Block again. I could climb into the engine compartment and never have a part hard to get to. But that was 41 years ago in highschool.....Oh Well. Ya can't take it with you.

Thanks for the support Brule.

Larry
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Re: Started overheating......Q's needing answers.

Postby roadrunner » Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:45 pm

I've been following this thread and have a quick question. When you swapped the FC out for the W4M module did you do a crank relearn? Just asking as when Jesse did mine I had SES light issues till (per his instructions) I had a local mechanic with a snap-on tester do the relearn. WARNING: NOTE: DO NOT HAVE IT RE-FLASHED. Just crank relearn only. Just took him a couple minutes to do as well. If you had done it in the past it's possible that whichever CPU you put in now needs this procedure. Just my .02 worth.
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Re: Started overheating......Q's needing answers.

Postby Torskdoc » Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:22 pm

No. I must have got lucky. Hasn't thrown a code in the 7 years I've owned it up til I replaced the Intake Manifold. I swap the FC and W4M at least twice a year for the last 5 years with no problems. I looked at the timing the other day on the scanner at advance and it was running right about 18-18.5 @ idle which what it's been running the 7 years I've had it. The only codes it's throwing is P0305 (#5 misfire) and a P0173 (Bank 1 too lean) which is probably the cause of the P0305.

The mileage suck Hind tit right now. I'm used to 20-23mpg avg on the Hwy and it's getting NMT 13-14 avg. And thats with the throttlle feathered between 13 and 15 inches on the vacuum gauge which is as high as I can cruise @ 62 without it slowing down.
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Re: Started overheating......Q's needing answers.

Postby HenryJ » Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:43 pm

Old mudbogger's trick: Soak down the cap, wires and coil with cheap hairspray. This creates a nice antistatic seal for them. Be sure to use cheap hairspray...if your wife catches you with her expensive stuff there is hell to pay. Don't ask how I know :oops:

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Re: Started overheating......Q's needing answers.

Postby Torskdoc » Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:34 pm

LOL! Guess I'll have to get some, as mine hasn't used Hairspray in Decades.
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Re: Started overheating......Q's needing answers.

Postby roadrunner » Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:07 pm

You've been lucky indeed! As soon as I installed my W4M mine immediately started throwing P0300 miss-fire code which wouldn't go away when cleared. After relearn no more codes.
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Re: Started overheating......Q's needing answers.

Postby Torskdoc » Mon Aug 04, 2014 7:00 am

After a whole weekend of it sitting (I was rebuilding a FISHER 400 tube receiver which is infinately easier to repair than the electronics on the S-10), I pulled out my supposedly non working scanner (Actron CP9145) and opened it up looking for a fuse, cold solder joints, etc. Nothing. But when I put it back together it started working, so without further ado I hooked it up to the truck, cleared the codes (again Mis fire #5 and Bank 1 too lean), and started it up. Let it warm up to get a closed fuel system and the temp above the thermostat opening (180*).

The W4M computer is in it now. NO CODES OTHER THAN THE P0305 and P0173 have been thrown according to 4 different Autoparts stores scanners, the local DIY garage, and my CP9145. It still misses, but it's getting better up to a point. It's there but not as noticable idling. You can hear the pulse from the exhaust. But you readily notice it in gear and accelerating up to about 3K on the tach, then it's so fast you don't notice it except that the gas gauge drops faster than a $50.00 hookers knicker's during Fleet week. Right now I'm averaging a high of 11 HWY, and about 4-5 in town. If I'm gonna get that kind of mileage, I might as well throw a stoker 383 in it, LOL!

Here are the results:
MIL.....................OFF
abslt TPS............0.0%
RPM...................660 to 708
Calc. Load.........3.9%
MAF (LB/M)........0.95
MAP (HG)...........11.5
COOLANT TEMP....181
IAT.........................86
IGN TMG...........10-10.5

LT FTRM1.(%)....25
STFTRM1(%)......14.1-16.8
LT FTRM2(%).....7.0
ST FTRM2(%).....0.8-1.6


SPD.(mph).........0
FUEL SYS1......CLSD
FUEL SYS2......CLSD

O2S11..(v)....0.095 - 0.860 (presume Driver side manifold?)
02S12..."......0.035 - 0.045 ((behind or between cats??)
O2S21..(v).....0.165 - 0.850 (presume passenger side??)

ST FTRM11.(%).....14.1 - 15.6
ST FTRM21.(%).....0.0 - 0.8



Gonna fill it up today, and add another can or two of Seafoam. If that doesn't do it (clean up the injectors), I'll order the Delphi MFI conversion spyder. And I was gonna use the proceeds from the FISHER for something else. DAMN!


Has GM PARTSDIRECT gotten better with their shipping prices (they have it on sale for 237.81 +shipping) or do you think I'd be better off getting it from Advance Auto @ $320.00 with free shipping (and possibly a 15% discount if I hit the site at the right time.). The AC Delco unit is $508 and change.....WTF????

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Re: Started overheating......Q's needing answers.

Postby Torskdoc » Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:02 am

I need to make a correction on the CODE # that is popping up for the Bank #1 too Lean. On my CP9145 it's P0171. On the Actron @ the 4 different Advance Auto stores, it's P0173. I don't know what the difference is but the result looks to be the same.

I've driven it about 75 miles since y'day morning. It's taking longer for the codes to pop up, and the engine seems to be responding to a double dose of seafoam. I'll keep on with this tank, and if it's not corrected by the end of the tank, look into getting a new spyder
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Re: Started overheating......Q's needing answers.

Postby Torskdoc » Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:47 am

Went to harbor Freight and got a Fuel Pump test kit, on sale for 19.99. Hooked up when got home, and test results are;
Static testing
Initial power up of Fuel Pump.......59 psi.
Turn off key...................................58psi
10 minute wait, key off..................58psi
Bled off to 10psi and wait 10 min....10psi

Engine Running
Turn on Key, Engine off........59psi.
Engine running @ idle..........53psi
Throttle blipped...................dropped to 48 and climbed to 54 then steadied out @53.
Shut engine off and wait 30 minutes......53psi.

So from what i can tell, the FUEL PUMP, and Check Valve are OK, as is bleed down after shut down.

I did notice when blipping the throttle hard from idle that i was getting a sparking noise from the left side of the engine. It's not the coil,(I fixed that with DiElectric Grease until I get a new one), so it has to be one of either the boot's on the plugs(which I coated with Di-Electric Grease) or a plug wire that is cross firing to either another wire, or a ground point. Too much light to determine where, so I'll wait until tonight to check (no light). This may be the or at least part of the cause of #5 misfiring. When I tested the wires for ohms I just pulled the boots and connected the ohmmeter. The wires are in the original wire looms and hangers.

Wonder if the corregated plastic wire looms would insulate enough to prevent arcing????

I'll report back tonight or tomorrow morning.
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Re: Started overheating......Q's needing answers.

Postby HenryJ » Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:45 am

Hair spray ;)

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Re: Started overheating......Q's needing answers.

Postby Torskdoc » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:05 am

I got the largest can of Suave Hairspray and hit everything from the coil and module to the plugs while changing wires, before I put in the new wires I sprayed them to get them on all sides.

I found the arcing. #5 and #3 were cross firing along with the occasional coil arc to ground (or my hand....YEOOOWCH!) . The burn marks were obvious as the nose on your face. Right next to the Vacuum booster, too. Replaced the wires and set them in the looms. Miss is now all Fuel injection. I took it to the local DIY shop and asked them to check out the ign system with their analyzer (Big ceiling mounted sucker with about 1,000 wires and connectors hooked up to it). Ign came back as really good, but #5 F.I is bad, and #1 is weak. Some test what they called power balance per the scope. So I'll be getting a new spyder. I still get the occasional #5 misfire, and the #1 bank lean, but not as much.

Still hard starting when cold, (have to cycle the key once or twice real quick then it starts right up), which hopefully is corrected by the spyder.
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Re: Started overheating......Q's needing answers.

Postby HenryJ » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:36 pm

On the right track. The only other thing I can think of that might be tried would be a dealer performed nitrogen purge. Basically cycling the system under air pressure with a cleaning agent added to clean the poppets. I suspect it would be a temporary fix at best with the mileage you have. Best money is probably spent on the new spider :)

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Re: Started overheating......Q's needing answers.

Postby Torskdoc » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:02 pm

Thank Henry J. I'm gonna order the Delphi spyder Thurday. Advance part FJ10565 / O.E.M. Number: 89060439 With a 15% discount and tax it comes out to $289. and change @ Advance Auto. GMPARTDIRECT couldn't tell me if the delphi OEM part # was for my 02. So much for GM knowing anything relevent.

I'll update when I get the parts.
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Re: Started overheating......Q's needing answers.

Postby Torskdoc » Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:31 pm

08-18-2014 UPDATE

Since last installment;

Ordered DELPHI MFI conversion Spyder from ROCK AUTO. $254.59 Installed Saturday in 90 minutes or so. The Hard part was to keep from Rushing.

Started it up and noticed that it took a while for it to finally straighten up and fly right. IDLE is VERY SMOOTH. OFF IDLE Is still a bit rough and in gear it stumbles and misses a bit still (FUEL PUMP as will be shown later in this post).

I haven't driven it much since putting in the spyder due to the Pump problems. I'm still getting a RANDOM P0300 But not the P0173 or individual P0305 or other cylinder misfires. Once I get to speed it runs fine, actually better than it's ever run, except for the random stumbling on heavier throttle. Full throttle runs show stumbling from idle to about 2K and then it smoothes out. It did cut out twice, but backing off the throttle brought it back (thought it might be coil but it checked out ok. I haven't had any arcing since new wires last week. Yes the new wires got sprayed with Hairspray).

Here's what my scanner says this morning while idleing after getting back from Grandkids house.

CP945 SCANNER

MIL ......................OFF
abslt TPS...............0.0%
IDLE SPD..............699-724rpm
Calc Load..............3.9%
MAF(LB/M)...........0.91-0.93
MAP ("HG)...........10.9
Coolant Temp........178
IAT (*)...................133 (AMBIENT OUTSIDE TEMP 82*F)
IGN ADV...............14.9-15.2

LTFTRM 1 (%)........3.1%
STFTRM 1 " .........0.0 - 1.6
LTFTRM 2 " ........0.0
STFTRM 2 "..........0.8-2.3

VEH SPD.............0.0

Fuel SYS 1.............CLSD
Fuel SYS 2.............CLSD

O2S11 (V)...............0.085 - 0.845v
O2S12 " .................0.095 - 0.725
O2S21 ".................0.100 - 0.765

STFTRM 11 (%)...........0.0 - 1.6
STFTRM 21 " .............0.8 - 2.3

PTO STATUS...............Disen
OBD2 Stat....................CA

Note the differences in the Fuel Trims from the previous post on AUG 04.. More in line with the other side.

I did do a Fuel Pressure test. I verified for dripping. weeping and leaks at the joints where it was opened up Saturday. No fuel getting out.

Key ON Engine OFF...............58psi (NOTE: It takes between 3 and 4 seconds for the pressure to build to full from 0. I've always seen it come up almost instantly ie: less than 2 seconds. Further testing will show that the back flow preventer (check valve) is leaking )

Engine ON............................51psi

Blip throttle..............................Drops to 38 and then rises slowly to 56 and then drops to 51 as engine accelerates then throttle closes and deaccel's)

Shut down engine, key off....................51psi drops to 49-50psi. After 15 minutes pressure drop is approx to 38 psi.

Manually drop pressure to 10psi wait 15 minutes.............pressure drops to 3psi


Fuel Pump is original, so I guess it's time to yank it out. Best price I can find for the delphi FG0070 is @ Rock Auto for about $220.00. So gotta save up for it and then get it. I just hope it doesn't run into October (no garage and I'm not one for temps below 75*). Also the Radiator is leaking around the upper Engine Oil Cooler line hole. Keeping an eye on it. Seems like the radiator everyone is liking from Proliance is now a 1" core. All documentation is showing 1" core. Because I tow an 18Ft travel trailer, I might (not likely but i can try) talk the wife into a custom built radiator. But between 600 and 800 is really hard to justify.


Side note: Crewcab's in the junkyards here in Md are scarce as hens teeth. I did find a non ZR5 03 yesterday and as i needed new rear wheelarch covers on mine
I yanked them. So they are an inch narrower than the ZR-5's. They FIT! and the truck looks decent with them. Washed, sanded with 400 W/D, washed again, dried, primer, and then 2 coats of Rustoleum MATTE Finish black in the rattle can. This the one with the 71 Mustang hood picture on the can. It's not sparklely like the original paint but I like it better. I may repaint the fronts too. You can see the stripe where the original arch covers wore into the paint.
Image


Image
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Re: Started overheating......Q's needing answers.

Postby HenryJ » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:12 pm

Sounding great. Truck looks good. Thanks for the details, LOVE that :)

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Re: Started overheating......Q's needing answers.

Postby Torskdoc » Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:53 pm

The best part is I paid $9.00 EACH for them. LMC want $399. for the standard rear archs and $599.00 for the ZR5's. Can you say RIP-OFF, Kid's?!?!?!?
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Re: Started overheating......Q's needing answers.

Postby Torskdoc » Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:54 pm

4:30pm Eastern. Well since the last installment, I've continued to have a miss off idle and rough running which is attributed to a #3 misfire according to the scanner. Plugs and wires were replaced, rotor and cap are AC Delco units with less than a year and 3500 miles on them. The intake gaskets, all hoses, belt, belt idler, were changed. New oil and filter, along with fresh GREEN 50/50 in the flushed cooling system (rad now has cracked tank at upper hose fitting so new rad is in future. NO 1-3/8 cores available now. All 1" cores.

Traced the #3 misfire to electrical. Last night after dark I went out and started it up and watched for arcing from the wires. I had sprayed them with hair spray a few weeks ago. Wires were in Factory loom's. #3 was arcing to Vacuum booster. New wires too. I found some of the corrugated wire covers with the slit in it in my box o junk and put it on the #3 wire. Then re-routed it straight up from the plug (using the 1st loom at the exh manifold.) then it was routed above the PCV intake hose, along the Valve cover, then to the cap.

Fired it up and tapped throttle to get 1500 rpm. :-D Absolutely ROCK STEADY, NO MISS, NO SHAKES, TREMORS, just running as smooth as silk. Took it out on the highway and ran it up to 55 or so a bit on the OLD FART side (nice and slow barely on the throttle......this was the best way to trip the SES light on with a #3 misfire). SMOOTH, and quite quick considering it's been runnin on 5 with this off and on miss for the last 4-5 years. Gonna get some more of that corrugated tubing and reroute all 3 of the left side wires to above the Valve Cover.

With this change the Fuel trims for the left banks are almost identical to those of the right bank. Took the scanner off (finally after 4 weeks of steady running. ). Also the FUEL PUMP seems to be running better after that 2 tanks of Double dose Seafoam. The leak down @ full pressure is less than 2lbs after an hour and @ 10lbs I left it overnight and it still had 8 lbs.

7:45pm. Just got back from a 100 mile round trip down I-95 and back. Truck ran like it had a new engine, NO misses, no sputtering, no drop off in uphill perfromance, and it clocked 23.6mpg!!!!! :mrgreen: :thumb: :mrgreen: :D :D Now to get that new radiator next week and THIS THREAD IS DONE!!!!!!


My thanks to EVERYONE who read this thread for putting up with the long winded posts.
And to those who posted with suggestions. They DID help with troubleshooting.

Larry
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Re: Started overheating......Q's needing answers.

Postby HenryJ » Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:05 pm

Awesome. Just for the record...did you install stock 7mm sized wires?

I had a huge rant about those wire sizes IIRC. I upgraded to 8mm SpiroPro wires.

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Re: Started overheating......Q's needing answers.

Postby Torskdoc » Fri Sep 05, 2014 4:22 pm

Yep. 7mm Autolite wires. I had 8mm Summit point wires on before but 3 of them developed bad ends (the connectors tore off at the plug end and they also missed I believe due to routing), so I had to put the Autolites on as a stop gap. Left side is now ALL routed straight up from the plug to the valve cover and follow the inboard edge of the V.C. to the distributor. There is not enough clearance between the engine and the vacuum booster in the S-10 with the 4.3L. I ran around with my utility trailer on it today, making dump runs of grass, brush, limbs etc. About 80 miles total. Didn't miss once. Power is very good now, throttle response is immediate with no hesitation. Run's like a new truck.

Suggestion for those with an offidle roughness and what feels like an intermittent miss. Reroute the DRIVER SIDE wires up to the inboard side of the Valve cover and then back to the distributor. Get and install 8mm wires with corrugated wire loom covers on them end to end. Use the wire looms at the manifold to keep them from burning, and use other 2 (if your's still has them) to keep wires in line.

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Re: Started overheating......Q's needing answers.

Postby HenryJ » Fri Sep 05, 2014 5:23 pm

Fantastic you got it figured out!
I like the Taylor wires just for the boots. The sparkplug end if fused to the wire and terminal. Nice flat grip for removal too. Their silicone outer sleeve does a good job against the heat. I have the 409 10mm wires on the henryJ and Avalanche. The HenryJ may need some fire sleeves where the headers come close, but has done well in over two decades now.

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Re: Started overheating......Q's needing answers.

Postby Torskdoc » Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:33 pm

It hasn't thrown a code since i repositioned the wires and continues to run fine. Went to the Pick and pull a week ago last friday looking for a radiator. While pulling what looked to be a good one off a 2000, I look off to my right and see a blazer with the front clip off of it and what lookedto be a new radiator on it. Walked over with my tape measure and it turns out it had a 1-3/8" core, and it took me less than two minutes to pull it off the hoses!! :speedy: $39.99 plus tax.

Got it home and filled it with 1/2 gallon of hot White Vinegar and added boiling water and let it sit for an hour. Then flushed it out backwards. Installed in truck, flushed out the old antifreeze, and put 2 bottles of prestone cleaner in it and ran it for a week. When I flushed it y'day it puked brown crap all over (I've been using green for 5 years so this was stuff that had collected on the inner walls of the heater core, and other parts I didn't replace with the intake manifold gaskets) for a good 4 minutes. Let the hose flush for an hour with it running, then drained the block and rad. In went 2 bottles of water wetter, and Green 50/50. Put the truck on a ramp on the right side, and burped it till it would take no more. filled the overflow bottle, then with the scan tool hooked up, let it idle for 30 minutes with the AC on FULL BLAST on MAX. Usually this gets the coolant up to 210 or so with the old core. Not anymore. It peaked at 188 and dropped back to 182 (with a 180 thermostat.). My Trans temp gauge is hooked up at the rad outlet (probably not the best place for it. It never got to 1/2way between 100 and 160 where before with the old rad it would hit 180-200 on AC. So outlet temps on Rad are good. :thumb:


It held pressure and volume from last night. The tank dropped about 1/8". I marked the level last night. It should stay the same now. So far the cardboard underneath is dry.

I looked at about 20 different places and no one carries a 1-3/8" core now for the S-10. Probably now the best place is the junkyards(pick and pulls. ). Take a tape measure. :idea:

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