body lift, bigger tires, then what mods?

Fitting oversize tires, raising and lowering, suspension modifications...

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Post by DLP »

I have the 31" Coopers on my CC. The ride is good, the price is good and the noise is low. But the size is BS! The actual height is about the same as 30s. I didn't know it until after I had them mounted and installed. Spending coin on a lift, shackles, frontend alignment and tires to gain 3" to 5" of height then loosing 1" do to incorrect stated tire size pissed me off. I added stock to the turn stops with my other 31s too. But I don't come close to rubbing the frame now. So I guess there is something good to come out of the tires. I need to grind the stops back down. It makes the truck act like a full size one turning into a parking spot.
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Post by F9K9 »

fallvitals wrote:........33s arent an option, im not sure how the 4.3 does with em, but it just seems like too much tire for that engine. ....................
I ignored this comment earlier today but, you are missing something here. It is all based on the entire picture. Remember what I said about two well known ZR2 wheelers that broke within the first 20 minutes on a national trail ride here last fall?

There's a ton of 2.5L engine rigs running well on 35s. There is a ton of 39.5" tires on 4.0L engines.

You are now stepping into the world of gearing which, I am not even going into. :lol:

Brule and I both run 3.73 gearing and it works well with the 33s. Could it work better? Yes, it could. Worth the expense to change gearing? It wasn't for me and apparently not for Brule either.

Loss of power is not factored into my decision on 33s. I really am not into 1/8 mile times but, I am into seeking larger ground clearance numbers.

When on actually trail rides you are in 4 Low and the power thing is pretty moot.
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Post by HenryJ »

I can still spin the 33's on dry pavement , so I don't think I am missing anything power wise.

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Post by F9K9 »

HenryJ wrote:I can still spin the 33's on dry pavement , so I don't think I am missing anything power wise.
Great! :lol: 999 times out of a 1000 times you beat me to a post. Let me rant and rave, use little used thought processes and you sum it all up in 10 words the moment after I post. Thanks, Buddy! :lol:
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Post by fallvitals »

Hm good info on the engine, im still leary of it, for an every day driver. (but let me add, if it wasnt for all the modding I would probably put 33s on in a heart beat 8) )Also, I dont have skidz flares, cant get em. and even if i wanted to say to heck with the skidz flares, just do the cuts, and run flarless, i would be so illegal. lol.

Heck, I am lucky to make my crew cab spin tires when its wet :lol:

Now my old 4.3 auto 2wd s10.... If I didnt care about buying tires and brakes, I could smoke em right off the rims :lol:
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Post by fallvitals »

Alrighty, new question....


After seeing YellowCrewCabber's boise/tb crank,30s it has me wondering..... is a body lift even worth it with that lift combo?

I mean, this is the way im seeing it... please correct me on any of this, or add to it.

A body lift is for more room in the wheel wells. Im gonna Run 30s. Some folks said they had issues rubbing, I really dont see any issues for me (after putting it ont he crub, could be wrong). So theres really no need for that. And the other reason is Looks.

So

Pro - Looks a lot better.
More room in the fender well


Cons - More room in the fender well might not be neded for 30s.
Front and rear bumpers are no where near as strong as stock, they are for more decoration then protection in any kind of impact.
If its not really needed, money could be spent on shocks.


The weak bumpers is a big deal to me, especially if the body lift is gonna do any thing but add looks.... I know dont hit any thing, but stuff happens.

So, any opinions, advice there? I really want the look if nothing else, but im not sure if its worth it just for looks if that is the case, and the weakend bumpers.

Also, my buddy was telling me the pain in doing a body lift is jacking up the body, you need a special jack. I was under the truck yesterday and though about how to jack the body up. Only idea I had was some big blocks of wood, anda few hydraulic jacks jacked at a slow pace, simultaneously.
Last edited by fallvitals on Sun May 10, 2009 1:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by F9K9 »

Your buddy is wrong about special tools when performing a BL.

No exceptional weakening of oem bumpers other than you should not mount a hitch on your rear bumper after the BL. The supplied brackets may not be strong enough and they are covering themselves by telling the end user to not tow that way. Unless you are just seeking an off road club's mandate for a rear recovery point you are fine.

The BL is aesthetic and also needed for larger tires than OEM!

Let me go out on a limb here and tell you that 30" tires will rub with a TB crank and shackle/spring pack lift. I really do not care if, it is 28.1 or 29.99 inch tires. All S-10s are different and you may prove me wrong. It will have to be after 5K of the TB crank that I admit being wrong and after you have zero collateral damage as a result of it.

Brule has been running his since '01 and I am a newbie with just 5 yrs running mine. The info was pioneered and old when I arrived in '04.

If you doubt earlier results, please pioneer and enlighten us as to your new found discoveries.

I have been in your shoes and just as hard headed. I saw all kinds of room for 30s and 31s at each point of progress. I saw all kinds of room with aftermarket wheels that possessed different BS. I saw it with spacers, as well.

At each of those defiant moments, I was fed just enough rope to hang myself. :lol:

A good soul taught me how to fish and I learned a valuable lesson. Few lessons are welcomed by individuals when they pass the half century mark in life. I welcomed my lesson.

Members from here have gone into rock crawling competition, built awesome solid axled DDs and weekend warriors. Tire size and what lift is needed has pretty well been covered,

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Post by fallvitals »

Im not tryin' to re-invent the wheel here or disprove any one or anything. I have done a lot of reading on here. A lot. And I have read about very few having issue with 30s and only a tb crank. 31s, way differant story.

And the tires on mine now are 235/75/15s.. Goodyear wrangler silent armors, 28.9" new, they have some wear to em. They dont rub like you say they should. And its stock. :?

As for me bringing up weakend bumpers, I read about on guy here who backed into a pole of some sorts who had a body lift, and allegedly the weak bumper didnt do him any good and shoved the bed into the cab. Though I dont think he said how fast he was going. Thats one of the reasons it was on my con list, and had me thinking about ditching the body lift. Seems more like a resonable concern rather then pioneering to me. :roll:

I really dont have my eyes full of eye candy I was just contimplating not doing a certain lift, that any one with a hardhead would be going full steam ahead for. I was just asking that if it wasnt gonna do anything for me other then looks, I probably wont do it. Thats it... I dont want new rims, super cool led lights, stickers. my goal is boise spring kit, tb crank, 30s on stock rims, and possible body lift. thats it. nothing extreme. not to be redundent, but from what i read with about 85% of folks not having issues with 30s and tb crank, and possible weakend bumpers (which you told me was not accurate), if a body lift would just be for looks.

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Post by 04crewvt »

I went through this whole process as well. My rig has the TB crank, lift shackles and springs (Roadmaster in my case) 30x9.5's (true size 29.5), with 3" rear spacers and 1" front spacers with Rancho RSX shocks. It will rub occasionally, usually when it's way overloaded (5 adults in the truck plus gear) on road if you hid a good bump or have to turn and hit an incline at the same time or off road on a tough obstacle. It is only occasionally and once you do it a time or two you can pretty much predict when it will happen and stop it from occurring by either slowing down or taking a different line. In my case it was not worth the effort to lift the body since I am off road so little so I just live with the rub when it does happen. In your rig YMMV depending on how you drive it.
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Post by HenryJ »

Measure your fenderwells. I think you will find that they are 31". 1/2" on either side is generally too close. Measure the closest point when the wheels are turned. How much room do you have?

You need an inch clearance.

If you can live with rubbing, any tire will fit. You don't have to listen to experience. Try anything you like for yourself.

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Post by roadrunner »

Listen to the fellas vitals! They've done and tried more than you or I can well imagine in the area of lifts etc. Much agony and $ can be saved with a little good advice here. As for my CC it is purely stock with BFG AT 235x75x15 tires which measure 29 inches. They rubbed on deep dip turns enough to hook the inside lips of both front fenders. I had to crank both T-bars up for clearance to alleviate this situation. Some tires are less aggressive on their side lugs and not as square in that area but this is what was needed with this tire combination on my truck. No two CC's are identical in the respects to tire clearances and what will/will not work but general experiences of members here should serve as a guide to you. BTW I got the fallvitals monikker. Perhaps would've been more obvious if you'd spelled it fallvittles. Vitals brings thoughts of vital signs etc instead of food.
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Post by fallvitals »

Im not trying to insult the wisdom of the founders here by any tretch. I know Brule had issues with rubbing, so h personally feels strongly about this subject and said tire size. I was only asking I currently had no issues with my 235/75/15s. and the 30s are a smidge bigger. And it was looking more like a comsetic job then practical. I know the wisdom here, not being hard headed or anything. I know I had read of MANY people here having no issues with 30s. It seemed to be the majority of 30 inch tire owners.

Plus the other big part that made me ask this was the weakend bumper question I had. Which apperantly is not nearly as serious as I had thought. That was a big reason for asking.

So ill say now, i didn't mean to irck, annoy, or make any of your old fellers mad :hehe: Im sorry. I truely didn't mean it in a young whipper snapper know it all way, I was just curious if it was still a worth while mod with a practical result in the end.
roadrunner wrote:BTW I got the fallvitals monikker. Perhaps would've been more obvious if you'd spelled it fallvittles. Vitals brings thoughts of vital signs etc instead of food.
No, fallvitals it will stay. I like that is more of a .. open, type screen name. Could have many meanings to it. But in my head its for the fall season. Bow hunting. And putting an arrow in the pump station (vitals area).

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Figured the picture had no place being posted in this thread.
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Post by roadrunner »

No foul no insult taken. Some of us here are old geezers by you younguns standards. Didn't mean to infer you change your ID either. Whatever suits you is all that matters. BTW I used to shoot an old recurve at targets like that picture many moons ago so am familiar from that perspective as well. :thumb:
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Post by F9K9 »

It's all good here! I just think that Brule is having flashbacks from a few years ago. You have a good chance of joining me on PETA's top 10 most wanted list. :wink:
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Post by border man »

I'll go against the grain and say that I have NO rub with 30" BFG AT/KOs. I have no TB crank and no rear spring modifications. I got very little rub after I added the ZR5 flares I got from Reed, but some slight trimming on the inside lip of those took care of that. (The ZR5 flares actually reduce your fenderwell clearance as posted on the forum before.)
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Post by HenryJ »

Be sure they know you do not have the Isuzu bed and that yours is a preproduction model. Production models have smaller rear wheel wells for sure.

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Post by border man »

I have the Isuzu bed just like you do. Most of my parts are all labeled Made in Brazil....My truck is identical to all of yours, except I didn't get an overhead console, I have an airbag shut-off, and my interior is not the standard dark charcoal color. Plus it's a 2000 model. :shock:
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Post by HenryJ »

I thought you had the flareless bed with the chrome trim that did not have the Isuzu fender bulges. These were conversions much like the prototype.

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Post by border man »

I had the chrome trim, but the fender bulges are there. The ZR5 flares were a perfect fit.
border man wrote:I upgraded from stock Sonoma crew to ZR-5 look-alike....
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I got the flares from F9K9, and the roof rack came from a 2-door Blazer.
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Post by DLP »

I have been wanting to add the roof rack. But wasn't sure about the mounting. Are the fastners/nuts in place? Or is there enough material to bolt/screw into? I don't have a problem boring holes in the roof if there is enough stock to support them. Do you have to pull the headliner down to see where to place them? Perhaps I shoulld do a little searching first. Darrell
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Post by HenryJ »

DLP wrote:I have been wanting to add the roof rack. But wasn't sure about the mounting.
Nutserts. There are a few good threads on installing a roof rack.

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Post by fallvitals »

Well, my project s10 offically began today.

Just got off the phone the Boise SpringWorks, got the kit ordered. And it is suppose to ship out today. So I figure ill see it this time next week.

I also found out I will be covering a full timer on vacation at work next week (im currently part time at my job, but should have a second job shortly, in addition to my seasonal jobs) So, with just the extra income from that check ill be able to get 4 Bilsteins and have some scratch left over.

After that just need to do the body lift, which i figure will be late june/july. Then 30" BFG ATs. Even had a "buddy" at work offer to give me hand if I needed it for the body lift. Ill have to started a new thread with the progress and pictures of my lift. lol.
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Post by fallvitals »

Little update, with my moto "Nothing is ever easy."


Got one side of the back jacked up, getting ready to install my Boise Spring Kit. Get the tire off, one the jack, find the correct socket, 21mm or the u-bolt nuts. I can't break em, so I grab the breaker bar. and very first nut, the 12 point socket starts jumping on the nut.


SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME, WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF 12 POINT SOCKETS? I had this very same issue when doing the rear diff fluid change!

Now if im lucky, my buddy will find a 3/8" drive or preferable 1/2" drive, 6 point 21mm socket at his house and bring it over. Or my mother can find one at lowes (LMAO) since she is out there right now.

Had to rant while waiting....

And to make it better! Sears/Craftsman has the socket I need, BUT IT ONLINE ONLY. And the other ones that will work also, are sold in stores, but out of stock in my area, of course. Maybe ill get very lucky and my buddy will have it, but if sears doesnt, i am sure lowes wont.
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Post by HenryJ »

Try a six point 13/16" socket or wrench. Everyone has a sparkplug socket. You did soak them with "panther piss" for the last week, right? ;)

Wrench Conversion Table - Equivalent Sizes

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Post by fallvitals »

HenryJ wrote:Try a six point 13/16" socket or wrench. Everyone has a sparkplug socket. You did soak them with "panther piss" for the last week, right? ;)

Wrench Conversion Table - Equivalent Sizes
great idea. I couldnt get it (13/16) to fit before, but giving it a little 'motivation' got it on. As soon as I got it on, my buddy called, he found a 21mm socket, 6pt. So, im just gonna wait for him to get here. He might even be able to give me a hand, lol. But im sure that 13/16 will break it. Its on there tight enough. Thanks for the tip Brule.
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Post by F9K9 »

Actually they have their good points. When there is little room to get a socket on there and you have little room to work a ratchet. I also went crazy one day trying to rebuild a heep transfer case and couldn't find a socket to fit two bolts that were at the very top of it under the body. All the rest were hex head bolts. :?:

Yep, I needed a 12 pt socket and none were in sight. I remembered I bought a $5 tool kit to change out a t-stat on a road trip and I tossed it behind the rear seat in the CC. It saved the day. I carry the same socket in my current heep in case I break an axle on the trail. The front bearing assemblies are held on by three of those suckers! Don't even get me going on standard and metric mixed on heeps and I just love those torc head bolts. :wink:


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Post by fallvitals »

HenryJ wrote:Try a six point 13/16" socket or wrench. Everyone has a sparkplug socket. You did soak them with "panther piss" for the last week, right? ;)

Wrench Conversion Table - Equivalent Sizes
lol, I soaked it in PB blaster for 4 days. I dont think three more would have really helped me, lol.
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Post by F9K9 »

fallvitals wrote:.........................I dont think three more would have really helped me, lol.
A week or longer is best.
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Post by fallvitals »

I went to harbor freight to get a big C-Clamp for this job too, since all of dad's has dissapeared... decided to pick up a Pnumatic Ratchet for $16. Shoulda known what I was getting! :lol: I never would have gotten it if it wasnt for some one here (porbbaly doesnt post any more) that said he used it for his body lift and it was a great time saver. Probably great once the bolts are broekn, but this thing surely wont do it! lol.
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Post by F9K9 »

Top_Sgt and I used impact guns not ratchets but, ours were newer when we tossed on the BLs.
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Post by fallvitals »

ALRIGHT HELP!

got the spring on, and reinstalling every hting on the first side.... And I cant get the differental to line up with the cetner bolt!!!! The differental is about 1/2" off... (front to back ways).... I dont udnerstand this one at all......


im tkaing the u-bolts back off now, gonna play with it, but im asking here in the mean time.... :?:
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Post by 04crewvt »

I had that happen when I installed my Roadmaster Suspension, I just pulled on it till it moved where I needed it. You might need another set of hands. Is the entire rear off the ground or are you just jacking one side up? I had the entire back off the ground when I did the mods on mine so I had wiggle room so to speak.
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Post by fallvitals »

one side is up...
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Post by 04crewvt »

If you can jack up the other side it will be easier, right now you are trying to move the axle with the trucks weight on 1 wheel, even I might have a problem that way. LOL
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Post by fallvitals »

lol,, well whats the best way t do both sides at once? i started to but didnt see a safe way, and am not sure if jacking it up under the rear diff is safe?
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Post by 04crewvt »

I used a standard set of jack stands just in front of the spring mounts on the frame to lift the entire rear off the ground then used the jack under the rear diff to lift and adjust the rear axle as needed.
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Post by HenryJ »

Do not get hurt! get some help and raise the truck , both sides to get the weight off the rear axle.
USE JACK STANDS TO SUPPORT THE TRUCK
From the mod page wrote:Be sure to support the vehicle safely on jack stands and block the front tires.
If the axle is no longer connected to the vehicle you are going to need to work each side up a little to raise it off the axle. Two floor jacks are not an option for most. Raise one side a little , then the other blocking as you raise. Block it at the frame in front of the springs. Both sides.

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Post by fallvitals »

HenryJ wrote:Do not get hurt! get some help and raise the truck , both sides to get the weight off the rear axle.
USE JACK STANDS TO SUPPORT THE TRUCK
From the mod page wrote:Be sure to support the vehicle safely on jack stands and block the front tires.
If the axle is no longer connected to the vehicle you are going to need to work each side up a little to raise it off the axle. Two floor jacks are not an option for most. Raise one side a little , then the other blocking as you raise. Block it at the frame in front of the springs. Both sides.

check check and check, I even put it in 4hi ;)

I just didnt know if i could jack the differantial itself up. Yup. I can. Googled it after posting, used a 2x4 to helf 'cushin' it. And both sides have jack stands on em. safety first and always.

Wish I knew this first so i coulda worked, smarter and not harder. As soon as I jacked both ends up, and went to move the diff, it feel right into the hole!!!!!

I could kiss you right now! lol. I mean that in a completely hetro way, lmao. I was getting ready to just set fire to the truck and call the insurance company, lol. :twisted: :evil:
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Post by HenryJ »

My worst nightmare is that someone tries to follow our modifications and gets hurt because we were not clear on all the steps to take.
Almost wants me to withhold the "how-tos" in case I missed some disclaimer.
Be safe!

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Post by 04crewvt »

I had my Tahoe slip off the jack this week when changing front shocks, Luckily I also always use my jack stands and it just fell the inch or so back to the stand that had already been placed.
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Post by fallvitals »

I can't blame you there Brule. Or atleast a "do not try these mods at home" disclaimer, lol. People are sue happy these days, and 98% of the time its their own ignorance.

Glad to hear you didnt get hurt 04crew... that would have been a scary moment.

Alright, dont with the first side, i know exactly whats going on now, learning a lot as i go. Im a mechanically inclined person but have done very few automotive jobs that are more then changing an alternator, oil, and that type of thing.

Only one scre up to report and ask.... the center bolt that goes throug hthe springs.. i took it off and put it on a few times trying to figure out that off center hole issue. Last time putting it on, i stripped the bolt.....

Should I get a new one and replace it shortly, or will that u bolts and mounting fixture keep everything in line? :oops:

Not sure if ill have time to do the torsion today... My plan was to get both things done then to the shop before 5 for an alignment! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Post by F9K9 »

Brule is so right about being safe. If, something is a "first" for you then google or ask, then check, double check and check again. Do not get comfortable with a portion of a rig over you.

We have all made mistakes when we think we have double checked everything. Most of us survive, some don't. I recently had a "wake up call" when I thought all was safe. Surviving a "wake up call" pays off if, you survive it. Makes you so much more aware of everything and makes you double check something once again when you are positive in your mind that you already have checked it. Military and civilian pilots follow a written checklist before each flight. It was established for a da*n good reason.

BTW, ratchet straps and come-a-longs(sp?) can be your friends.
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Post by fallvitals »

Yeah, i most definantly wouldnt have done this if I wasnt sure. I would have jacked it by the diff to start with, but i wasnt sure if it was good for the diff.

Well got it on. Of course I turned it into an all day thing. 8-10 hours for a body lift? I think im gonna need a week!


It looks good. Havent driven it yet, so maybe this will settle down... but the rear drivers was 1/2" higher to start, after this mod, it was 1 3/8" higher then then the passnager side! :shock:

Im thinking they will settle in some after driving.. probably getting ahead of myself, but, any opinions? anyways, saturday night, im headed out. doing the TB crank tommorow.
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Post by blaz »

Well, I finally got around to taking some pics of the rub with 31" tires. Though this is on a blazer it is probably very similar to what you want to do.

These pics are of the front drivers side un-flexed;

Image
This shows the frame rub (shinny spot).
Image
This shows the 5/8" clearance at the front valance.
Image
This shows the rear fender rub, I have a mud flap on. It would be harder on the tire if the flap was removed.

Right now the blazer is stock, 2" body lift is on order. I expect to have minor fender rubbing once the body lift is installed. The frame rub I can live with. I also think that the 31" tires are on the small side. The tires are goodyear wrangler territories (canadian version). I really like the tires so far, they are good on the street, good in the rain, good on the rocks, have not tried mud yet.

I realize that you are going to make your decision, I just thought some stock rims and no body lift pics would let you see what you are in store for.

Good luck,
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Post by F9K9 »

Good photos, Paul!

Thanks!
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Post by fallvitals »

Thanks for that post. I am sure im just gonna go with 30s due to the clearance issues, even with body lift after my mods im working on. I definantly dont want to cut the fenders. And you gave a great visual example.



Driving with the Boise Spring kit was suprising. Very much like stock, except not mushy, firmer, and is not bad unless you hit a big bump, like a speed bump at higher speeds. then it feels like its gonna launch, lol. BUt im very happy with the ride. And im sure new Bilstein shocks in about 2 weeks or less will take out what little I dislike about it.

Plus I need to do that TB crank bad, i feel like im going down a slicky slide while driving, lol.