Fallvitals' lift journal.

Fitting oversize tires, raising and lowering, suspension modifications...

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Postby fallvitals » Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:51 am

f9k9 wrote:That would mean Motor Mount Lift in some circles. Haven't heard of it with S-10s.


I ment Marvelous Mystery Lift, in our little circle :poke: :lol:
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Postby fallvitals » Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:10 pm

Got my flares back on, the bttom of the front ones where I filled it in with epoxy as starting to get a verticle crack.. im figuring its gonna have a single crack al lthe way up the cut... but its still rounded off, so shouldnt be that bad? but better then just leaving the cut as it was....

got the back ones on also, but the baby lost a few of the nuts,, and one of the screw holes didnt line up. So i needed to drill a new hole for it, butt hat required removing the tire, and its HOT so i decided to finish that last screw when I get the lost nuts needed to finish it.

I just hope it hold up well over time, but looks good.
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Postby Horsehammerr » Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:12 pm

OK ! Lets see 'em. :pray: 8)
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Postby fallvitals » Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:38 pm

Heres a few pictures, couldnt take as many as I would have liked, my camera's memory got full fast on this trip out to set up trail cameras.

They are over the 100K limit so linky,

http://photos.imageevent.com/rc_racer_0 ... lares1.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/rc_racer_0 ... lares2.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/rc_racer_0 ... lares3.jpg

Shoulda taken a picture of the front flares, they both are starting to develop a crack. But they seem to have more stress put on em once mounted then the rears, but I suspect over time they all will get on verticle crack in them.... better then nothing I guess...
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Postby HenryJ » Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:20 pm

Nice job!

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Postby paintballrocker » Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:32 pm

x2
2002 CC, westin push bar with 2 lights, bed cover, custom made cat-back exhaust.......soon a steering stabilizer mod, lift, sounds system
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Postby Horsehammerr » Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:45 am

Thanks, I know exactly what you went through to reach that end. I'm just not sure it's worth the hassle of filling and sanding the lap cuts. I guess I kind of like the rough untuned look. We'll see when ever I get those pics. loaded up. Anyway your project is coming along very fine. Enjoy !! 8)
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Postby fallvitals » Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:58 am

Even if they all develop one single verticle crack, still worth the effort imho.
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Postby fallvitals » Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:33 am

It Is Done!

*disclaimer, still need front bump stops.

Got to my uncle's tire shop. talked to a guy there I have met before, he brought out the tires. Then the Nay Sayers came out. Saying they bet its gonna rub (the fender) I said well maybe, but I did this, this, and that. And modeled my truck after another I saw on the internet. Saying yes it would rub the frame, but building up the steering stop would fix it.

They put the first on and shouted, Yeah Its Gonna Rub! As if some truimph for them. I noticed they were pointing to the air dam, and I informed them, im not worried about that, its just palstic, ill cut it to fit.

Then I turn the wheel over, and bam on the frame, worst then I thought it would. But shouldnt be too bad once fixed.

So they put the rest of em on.

Then noticed I only had 4 tires setting there. I asked my uncle if he got me 5. He said no.. I was curious why he wouldnt get me 5 going to such a larger tire size :?: But he said if I wait a few days, he could more then likely get me a nice used tire for a spare, im assuming a 33x10.5x15. But for a spare, I don't see an issue with it. And if I dont like it, I can srtill get another bfg 33x9.5, I saved for 5.

Leaving the shop, I had to back out, which wasnt too easy not knowing my turning limitations yet, and my 4 old tires in the back of my truck, and I started to rub it. I cringed as I back it out. :twisted:

Finally once going, I had the tire turned just a hair, and heard an dreadful rubbin noise, and the tire was barely turned.

By this time im thinking this was a huge mistake, Im barely turning it and rubbing. I later discovered it was just the front air dam, I didn't think it would be an issue while driving paved roads, but apperantly so.

so im going out to cut the air dam, program the speedometer, and heres a etaser pic till I get it all washed. ;)

http://photos.imageevent.com/rc_racer_0 ... /bfgat.jpg
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Postby HenryJ » Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:37 am

Was trimming the front valance in the install directions? I don't recall. It is needed for sure. I just don't remember if I included it.
Use a compass or pair of calipers to measure the distance at the top , then scribe that cut line down using the same distance from the tire. That will give you a nice radius to follow.

Those look really huge compared to the stock tires. I forgot just how much difference there was.

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Postby Horsehammerr » Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:53 am

I had to cut my airdam 3/4" in at bottom and up 1 1/2" just a small corner cut and I'm clear. I was on 275/60/15 at the time. Now on 30/9.5 and still clear. Wheels are 8x15 with 3 3/4 back spacing, so they are out there. You may have to cut a bigger corner off with 3" more diameter. I think the big back space eliminated the frame rub, I mean my wheels are 3 1/4" further out from the frame than my stock 7x15 With 6" back space.
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Postby green02crew » Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:21 am

Did you get wheel spacers to prevent frame rub?
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Postby fallvitals » Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:27 pm

Yeah I got the 1 1/4" spacers on the front.

I dont recall if the trimming the valace was in the directions? I did recall reading about it ehre, and knew for sure it would need it.

I went out with a dremel, and sanding block and followed the line in the valace mold. No problem there now, atleast onroad. I am gonna loose a bit more then I thought once I build the stops up, but oh well,, ill learn to live with it.

but on the bright side, my vibration I had is gone, I bet it was the tire I put a big hole in n my first "offroad" trip.

I set my Hypertech to a 32.75" tire, and my speedo was faster about 2.5 mph @ 50.

Set it to 32.25 and its a little less then 1mph faster, then then it was stock, ill try 32.50 and see where it is.

with the stock speedo it was about 6mph slow at 70.
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Postby blackZR5 » Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:40 pm

truck looks awesome man, i think i now wanna follow in your steps... overall, just how difficult was it to make the flares work with the cuts? Horsehammerr i see you have done the same thing, any input?
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Postby fallvitals » Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:43 pm

it wasnt hard at all to make them fit. The pain, well just time consuming, and money consuming :lol: , is filling in the cuts liek I did with plastic epoxy, or whatever you think is best so its rounded.

Now, this weekend my buddy is gonna do the steering stops for me, I am afraid im gonna loose more turning radious then I first thought, but I geuss you gotta pay to play.

My same buddy was telling me im gonna need a modified sticker... :x I hope not... Really it looks rpetty stock with the old tires, atleast comparable to a zr2. I kept my old tires just in case, lol.
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Postby F9K9 » Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:58 pm

fallvitals wrote:............My same buddy was telling me im gonna need a modified sticker...
What type of sticker are you referring to?
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Postby fallvitals » Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:44 pm

f9k9 wrote:
fallvitals wrote:............My same buddy was telling me im gonna need a modified sticker...
What type of sticker are you referring to?


my fault, inspection.
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Postby F9K9 » Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:44 pm

I wouldn't think any of the mods that you have performed would be extreme enough to require one but, I am unfamiliar with WV motor vehicle laws.
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Postby fallvitals » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:43 am

In WV, from my little bit of reading, "(g) Nothing contained in this section shall subject a vehicle modified solely by the installation of tires not larger than two sizes beyond the maximum specified by the manufacturer to inspection as provided in subsection (h) herein."

It mentioned body lifts not exceding 3", but if its under it with a kit, its not modified? Im not sure. Really, except for the hugeness of the 33s, it could pass for stock with someone who isnt as into S10s as we are, I think. Looks very ZR2 like. But, I dont have to find out till next June.

My only concern if I do have to get a modifed inspection is the rear driver tire sticking out (just the sidewall) about 1/2-3/4" outside the flare. The bulge of the side wall just BARELY protrudes out from the widest part of the flare on both front tires, 1/4" or less. For the rears, I could always remove the spacers.. as for the front.. not sure, but I did save my old tires incase I run into issues...


Odd part, is I have started checking out lifted trucks, you know the ones with 6" suspension lifts, very obvious mods. They have the sticker, but 3/5ths of them have tires sticking way past the body work. Which I wonder how they did that, cause on a modified inspection, they go over your vehicle with a fine tooth comb. :?:
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Postby Horsehammerr » Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:19 am

Lets see the finished product. I simply used the SKIDZ flare cut measurements and cut my wheel wells. Then I cut my ZR5 flares to match using the cut , lap , rivet method like the wheel wells. I didn't do any filling or sanding to the flares. I just cut slow and easy on a band saw so my cuts are pretty clean and accurate to the arch of the new opening. My CC is only lifted in front with the Torsion bars for the purpose of leveling and a little firmer ride off road. I really don't need the Marvelous lift for the little off roading that I do. I hope soon to have the ability to post some pictures. 8)
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Postby fallvitals » Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:43 am

Horsehammerr wrote:Lets see the finished product. I simply used the SKIDZ flare cut measurements and cut my wheel wells. Then I cut my ZR5 flares to match using the cut , lap , rivet method like the wheel wells. I didn't do any filling or sanding to the flares. I just cut slow and easy on a band saw so my cuts are pretty clean and accurate to the arch of the new opening. My CC is only lifted in front with the Torsion bars for the purpose of leveling and a little firmer ride off road. I really don't need the Marvelous lift for the little off roading that I do. I hope soon to have the ability to post some pictures. 8)


I aint posting any more pictures, youll have to use your imagantion to see what that front tire would look like on the back! :lol:

I think im gonna play with the programmer some today to see if I cant get my speed exactly locked in right.
If I remember right with a 32.75" tire (the BFG ATs are 32.7") I was like 2 mph faster on my speedo then my gps.

32.25 im around 1-.5 mph faster on my speedo then gps, ill try 32.00 and see where it hits.

Ah, I can't wait to get those steering stops welded up this weekend. Im scared to make every turn in fer of rubbing, lol.

From straight you can turn the wheel 1.5 times till its locked in either direction, It looks like it needs to stop at 1.25 turns to stop rubbing. Of course if articulated, it should still rub but that will be in vary vary few occasions, so I dont think I should be worred about that?
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Postby HenryJ » Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:06 am

The point at which it rubs the frame is already at the apex of the suspension travel. You should be just fine adjusting your stops in the static position. Mine have not rubbed the frame since I adjusted them and I did so static.

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Postby Horsehammerr » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:00 pm

Static position ? :?: :wha:
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Postby HenryJ » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:11 pm

Not articulated, not compressed nor raised.

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Postby fallvitals » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:37 pm

Ohhh. gotcha.

But wouldnt that also make to where the front wont flex/articulate very much at all? The bump stops are going to pretty much stop front travel?

Im sure it has worked fine for you, since you havent talked bad about it, but it seems like that wouldnt be very good offroad?

heres another picture to keep horsehammer occupied ( :lol: ) till i get it washed and looking good for some nicer pictures.

http://photos.imageevent.com/rc_racer_0 ... C04129.jpg

Tires seem to have "settled" in some. When I first had em on the interstate they felt kinda "shakey", I guess like a AT/offroad tire would handle like. But another trip on the interstate and it seemed to dissapear leaving a pretty smooth ride.

Brule, do you recall what tire size you have your hypertech PPIII set at?

32.70 is the actual diameter of the tires, and with the HPPIII set at 32.00" tire, my speedometer is only .0-.3 mph slower then my gps. 32.25" was about 1mph faster on my speedo then gps.

Just curious if you had to go as low as I.
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Postby HenryJ » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:46 pm

fallvitals wrote:Ohhh. gotcha.

But wouldnt that also make to where the front wont flex/articulate very much at all? The bump stops are going to pretty much stop front travel?

Im sure it has worked fine for you, since you havent talked bad about it, but it seems like that wouldnt be very good offroad?
:?: :wha:
do you recall what tire size you have your hypertech PPIII set at?
I posted it in that thread. I would have to do a search for HPPIII settings to find out.

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Postby fallvitals » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:52 pm

HenryJ wrote:
fallvitals wrote:Ohhh. gotcha.

But wouldnt that also make to where the front wont flex/articulate very much at all? The bump stops are going to pretty much stop front travel?

Im sure it has worked fine for you, since you havent talked bad about it, but it seems like that wouldnt be very good offroad?
:?: :wha:
[quote]

Your talking about static postion.

Thats where my truck is right now, setting in the drive way with no "strain" on it forcing one tire higher then the other, right?

The way I pictured this in my head, is you adjusted your bump stops so the front STAYS in the static position? Meaning, they will barely move, or not move, to prevent frame rub even if offroading because they will still in in the static postion, no matter what strain you put on the front while rolling over, say a rock?

Understand what my jumbled brain is trying to put into words now? lol.




I saw the HPP3 programmer thread, http://www.s-10crewcab.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=620

You listed 30.5".... but im assuming that was before the BFG AT 33s... unless theres another post im missing?
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Postby HenryJ » Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:09 pm

fallvitals wrote:Your talking about static postion.

Thats where my truck is right now, setting in the drive way with no "strain" on it forcing one tire higher then the other, right?
Yes. Now build up the steering stops to where the tire just clears the frame when turned.

The way I pictured this in my head, is you adjusted your bump stops...
Bump stops are the rubber springs used to limit the upward travel and I did not adjust them , I added fullsize.

Look a little harder: http://www.s-10crewcab.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 1545#71962

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Postby fallvitals » Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:47 pm

I gotcha, but with the bump stops, full size. when rolling over something that would normaly articulate your front end. Are you saying those bump stops are going to keep the front end in the static postion, or darn near close to it, while rolling over said rock? (the trade off being less articulation/rubbing)... ?


Can't beleive I missed that one :oops: Im gonna have to read more into the rev limiter, and shift points. Im not that much of a gear head, but you gave a pretty nice little write up of when they need t be changed. I always thought the 3-4 shift in s-10s was too long.

Pretty crazy how things can very so greatly in each truck, 32.00" with my bfgs puts my speedo right on the money, according to my Garmin 60c GPS anyways.
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Postby HenryJ » Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:59 pm

fallvitals wrote:I gotcha, but with the bump stops, full size. when rolling over something that would normaly articulate your front end. Are you saying those bump stops are going to keep the front end in the static position, or darn near close to it, while rolling over said rock? (the trade off being less articulation/rubbing)... ?
No. I only mentioned that you need to adjust your steering stops with the suspension "static", or resting and that would work fine even through the front suspension travel. You are at the tightest point resting.
You are confusing two totally different subjects.

The fullsize bump stops will not limit the front articulation more than what the fender does now.

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Postby fallvitals » Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:28 pm

Ooooo. :idea: The light just went on!
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Postby Horsehammerr » Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:38 pm

Thanks Fallvitals, Sure makes me think a little taller. I hope to back among the employed before to long and have a lot less time on my hands. :roll: 8)
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Postby MoJoe » Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:08 pm

Great thread, and progress fallvitals. Your CC looks perfect.
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Postby fallvitals » Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:55 am

Thanks.

My buddy built up the stops for me last saturday. Then it wasnt enough, so he built the passnager up more, and that did it! but then ran out of welding rod... so we will do the drivers side sometime.... But you loose 1/3 of your steering in either direction with 33s...

I also filled up the first tiem to check gas milage with my 33s, and the hypertech's 85octane setting, see what it did for me.

Backstory,, go-marts around here have been using straight gas, and just before I put on my 33s, they went to 10% ethonal. :x :x :x :x So, its not gonna be very scientific! Anyways,,, I went front 14.5-15.5mpg, to 13.9, but thats with the blended ethonal gas, all city driving.

I think exxons around here still sell straight gas, but they are all out of the way for me... I just wish they had held off a month so I could have used the same straight gas,,,, so im not sure if I need to blame the tires, hypertech or gas, lol. I am gonna play with the hypertech power setting (on/off) to see if it makes differance. Plus see if I cant find a straight gas gas station round here still.

But all think considered, I think my mpg lose is from the gas, I lost roughly 1mpg, in the city. not too bad. PLUS, also need to figure in, my speedometer was 1.5 mph faster then it really was with stock tires, not sure what kidna diferance that will play in there too. But im sure I got my speedo zeroed in now.
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Postby fallvitals » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:07 am

Well,,, took a trip 2 hours north to set up a trail camera and hunting spot.

Still having fits with gas milage. In the city I am still averaging 13.9 with the new tires, but im not sure if I should blame the tires or the E10 gas. Of course go-marts went to E-10 one week before I got th tires.

But before I got the new tires, when they switched the gas I did get 19.9mpg highway with a tank of e10 and still some straight gas... but one the way back with all E10 I some how got extremely terrable milage (13.2mpg, and 90% of that was highway!) and again the speedometer was 1.5 mph fast with old tires.

Well fast forward, im still geting 13.9mpg in the city, down from 15mpg. And highway I am not geting 17.5mpg wher I was getting 19.9mpg! Thats a hard hit. I was figuring if it was the tires that killed my milage, it would reflect it in the city, but not highway driving. Since o nthe highway your constantly moving, and heck your even running less rpms with the larger tires.

I turned of the 85 octane engine tuning setting on my hypertech to see if that makes a differance.

I really dont think its the tires that caused the lose becuase im still loosing big tiem on the highway, seems to me with less rpms, and constantly moving it would pretty much stay the same. ? :?:

But i thought Exxons still sold straight gas, but its E10 also... so I don't know of any gas stations locally that sell straight gas to rule it out :x

i really think the gas killed my milage, I mean I figured id take this kinda hit with new tires, I just wish I knew which of the 3 things (gas, tires, hypertech engine programming) hurt me. I doubt the 1.5mph differance from my old speedometer would have any effect on this? I doubt it.
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Postby HenryJ » Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:58 am

It all adds up. 10% loss from the E10, a speedometer correction of 2.5%

The window sticker said 15 city and 19 highway. Add the E10 to that and you get 14 mpg city and 17 mpg highway.
I'd say you are right there close.

I have found the E10 here to be really inconsistent. It may be the water content that is playing a part? There seems to be lots of variance between tanks where it was very consistent before.

Play with your tire pressures to see if that may improve things. Might be worth a shot.

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Postby fallvitals » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:35 am

Thats pretty much the math I was coming up with too. I just wish go-mart could have held off for a month so I could have had some consistancy after the new tires.

Maybe hoping around to different gas stationscould give better results (AKA, one station having less ethonal then another).

Im running 33 psi. I think I recall reading you run 40 psi? Im worried about running the center out if thats the case? (im sure it doesnt since you do it, and keep doing it, but it seems liek it would?)
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Postby HenryJ » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:47 am

fallvitals wrote:...Im running 33 psi. I think I recall reading you run 40 psi? Im worried about running the center out if thats the case? (im sure it doesnt since you do it, and keep doing it, but it seems liek it would?)
There is a good thread on finding the right tire pressure. My truck may run heavier than yours? It has been working great for mine.

Chalk line across the tread, start at the maximum and lower until it is scrubbed across the whole line IIRC.

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Re: Fallvitals' lift journal.

Postby _STUCKY » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:23 am

Pictures! And it's of a cleanly done truck, too! Me likey. Any updates?
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Postby fallvitals » Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:10 pm

Thanks. Updates, hindsight, kinda wish I hadn't done all that to my truck once I got an Atv. My front end pops and cracks constantly (sure its torsion bars). My gas mileage was need great stock 15city/19highway. Now it's like 12city/16 on a great highway trip.

I'm looking to upgrade to a slightly used or new full size this fall, maybe winter. I love my s10, it looks great. I have people tell me that every so often. But, practically not so great IMHO.
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Fallvitals' lift journal.

Postby fallvitals » Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:11 pm

Image
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Re: Fallvitals' lift journal.

Postby HenryJ » Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:04 pm

Nice shot! 8)

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Re: Fallvitals' lift journal.

Postby Silentmerx » Wed May 30, 2012 12:18 am

Fallvitals, so let me ask you this....was it worth it? Meaning I am looking at just doing 31's to my truck, but 33's have crossed my mind. I don't want to start something that I might regret down the road.
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Postby fallvitals » Wed May 30, 2012 7:24 pm

It all depends... I don't think I would have done it hindsight... Mainly because I never did offroad it bad, then I got a Atv and that's what I use. Our front ends are weak, mine pops and cracks all the time since I did the torsion bars. It always scared me about wheeling and breaking down my daily driver.

It just depends what you will do with it. It is capable. Narrow and short wheel base. But that front end always worried me. And since I got a Atv, I can go anywhere and not worry about it. When I do get a new, or newer truck, not sure which road I wanna go yet, I don't plan on lifting it. Though having a winch is a great just in case thing.
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