2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

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2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

Postby 87bluebird » Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:39 am

I just bought a 2002 crewcab 4wd Sonoma from an old friend it has the 4.3 vortec v6 and 4l60e auto trans and he is giving me the clutch pedal gauge cluster and steering column from a 5 speed blazer. I have a 97 high nickel alloy 4 bolt main 5.7 engine that was rebuilt less than 20 thousand miles ago and a 97 nv3500 with manual shift np241 transfer case and a brand new clutch I was saving for another project but that project has hit some roadblocks that I don't have time to deal with so I was thinking about shoving the 5.7 5 speed and 241 into the Sonoma. I have a couple 97 5.7 harnesses so modifying the 4.3 harness for the v8 should be easy and wiring the 5 speed is easy but one big question I have is the wiring on the t-case. On the full size chevy to convert to manual t-case you can just change the harness connecting t-case to front diff to one from a manual t-case truck. I have that harness for the full size does anyone know if s10s t-cases and front differential wire up like a full size? I have been looking up 5 speed swaps and v8 swaps for s10s but haven't found a clear answer on if the 1500 full size oil pans work on 4wd s10s. Just that that oil pan works on 2wd. Also a lot of people move the radiator in the core support but I couldn't find any clear info on that process and is that necessary or can I just leave the radiator how it is and mount a couple pusher fans in front of it? I will use the 411 computer from the s10 and repin it for the v8 and have it reprogrammed for the v8 and five speed who is the best or cheapest at reprogramming them? I know people usually have them programed to the specs for the express van. Last question is exhaust manifolds I have read the vortec 5.7 manifolds will hit the heater box and be extremely close to steering I have also read that the older tbi 350 manifolds might fit or 305 tbi manifolds might fit I have a tbi 350 and a tbi 305 in my garage I can steal the manifolds off if I have to. Can anyone confirm what manifolds will fit? And will the full size truck you pipe and cats fit without a lot of trouble? I am sure I will have more questions but those are the main ones I can't find answers for rite now. There is No bed but cab is solid only rust is rockers and cab corners. I will Weld on new rockers the cab corners are not needed for what I plan to do with this truck after I am done with the driveline swap. I am gonna do this project on big step at a time so the plan for the body is not gonna happen till I get the Sonoma drivable with driveline all done and i still got to find a solid donor 2 door blazer before I can commit to that idea.... The Sonoma has the grill and bumper my friend just removed for towing with a tow bar because it don't have brake lines for the rear brakes he was gonna put new lines on but ran out of money.
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Postby _STUCKY » Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:47 am

As for the tcase, mind you I haven't done this, just read about from the solid axle guys, but some people swap over to a manual shift 231 or 241 and they have to ground a connector (I'm not sure what or where) that tells the truck it's in low range. If you don't do that the trans can go into limp mode and I believe get stuck in 2nd gear. Now, something that may make life easier, depending on which tcase you have in the s10 stock, swap the input from the 241 into the 233 (if the spline count is different, I don't know what that manual trans output spline count is, but the stock s10 tcase is 27 spline). The bolt pattern on the mating surface is the same, possibly clocked slightly different, but I doubt it. That would be hopefully no drive shaft mods or wiring mods, assuming the tcase stays in the stock location. If you have a 4 button auto 4x4 junk, find a 233 (3 button switch on dash), the auto junk isn't worth the time. The input *should* the same between the 3 and 4 button setups, but I haven't been into one with the auto junk to say for sure. I have swapped several 231/233/241/243 inputs around with success. If you end up with the 241 in there, you will need to get creative with the shifter. It is very rare, but there was a 231 available in the 95-97 s10s, the shifter setup may work on a 241, but I don't know. If you find that setup, get it all if you can get it cheap.

Now for the manifolds, I don't know if you are in the rust belt, but I've had a few tbi Chevy's, I always had very little luck getting the bolts out where the donut gaskets are without breaking them. My fix was drilling out the broke bolts and threading it for a bigger bolt. Not ideal but it works. I have no idea if those will bolt up to the current exhaust but I doubt it. If a solid front axle is in your future, a 2wd s10 y pipe fits beautifully to tuck closer to the oil pan instead of going around the d shaft.

You said something about moving the radiator forward, I don't think that is necessary if you do an e fan. I used an intrepid fan, and it opens up a lot of room. Also note that stock s10 motor mounts are a cheesey design. Look into the jags that run v8/2.8 style mounts.

Again, I haven't done a v8 swap, so take some of that with a grain of salt. Things like this, sometimes no one can answer the question since no one has done exactly the same thing. There's always variables and different ways around things. Stick around and keep us updated, preferably with pics. It seems slow around here, but there's still people watching.

Good luck :wave:
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Re: 2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

Postby 87bluebird » Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:27 am

The Sonoma has a np233 but it doesn't work part of why the Sonoma's so cheap that and I don't trust push button. Manual everything is more reliable lol I was thinking about trying to use a four wheel drive shifter from a 99 up full size should match Sonoma interior close enough and be setup for right 4wd shift pattern just will have to figure out and make the linkage the right size. I don't have to worry about tranny going into limp mode with a standard. Just have to figure out the wiring from the tcase that tells the front differential to engage. At least that's how full-size chevys work idk if s10s engage front differential same way. Solid axle is something I have thought about for the future but for now I want to just use stock front end and suspension till I get further into the project. Driveline then body modification then axles and suspension last is my plan. I will probably do a 2 inch body lift before I swap driveline that should help exhaust manifold and transfer case and everything else with clearance. I was thinking about the fullsize y pipe because they are set up for 4 o2's and I know it will reach around the nv3500 and if I can use the vortec manifolds the y pipes I got will bolt right up then just got to figure out exhaust from there back If that's tight enough to the tranny to fit between the frame and tranny. If not I will find a s10 y pipe and modify it to fit around the tranny. Good idea about drilling out for a larger bolt. I break them all the time lol and the nv3500 is 32 spline output. The rear drive shaft will need to be extended when I extend the frame so I ain't to worried about driveline moving forward or back some but I don't think it will move much the nv3500 is the same length as a 4l60e and can use the same crossmember. So I hope I can just put the trans back exactly were the 4l60e is but that depends on a lot of other factors like motor mounts oil pan clearance etc

Can the intrepid fans be switched to pusher fans by reversing polarity? That would be easier than modifying the core support. Modifying the core support don't look difficult but I have not seen it done in a way that looks factory and retains ac and a solid hood latch. I the motor mounts I was looking at the are about 85 bucks use a 2.8 the or 2.2 (I can't remember which) bottom to the frame then a adjustable top that bolts to the v8.

Atleast that is what i am thinking so far from what I have read about this type of stuff but like you said there's a lot of variables so who knows how much of my plan will work or will need to be figured out while doing it. And I will take a lot of pictures as I do this project :)
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Re: 2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

Postby 87bluebird » Thu Jun 30, 2016 8:07 pm

For the intrepid fans what year range do people use?
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Postby _STUCKY » Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:14 am

On the fan, 99ish intrepid. I'm not sure if polarity can be reversed, I mean probably if you are smart enough but it'd be easier to just put a pusher in front.

Haha yea no limp mode with a manual. Slipped my mind. I hear you on manual everything. On my crew when I did the axle swap, I really wanted the 95-97 231 setup, but I ended up keeping the 233. It has no vacuum to it anymore. The only 2 things I know of that can cause it to not shift is the button on the dash and the motor. Personally I think the stock setup with vacuum making the shift collar in the front end move works like voodoo. If you really want to make it as simple as it can be, look into the bravada/awd astro van front 1 piece shaft and tube. It eliminates the disconnect, but the front axle will always be turning. I think of it like the jeep guys with a CAD axle look for 1 piece shafts from tj/xj to swap in, same idea, less things to go wrong.

As for the exhaust, I'm pretty sure there's a few places that make manifolds/headers, whatever you want to call them. I'll see if I can get ahold of one of the members here and get him to chime in on what he used. Really with the right parts list, I think it'd be a fairly smooth project. Researching and gathering the right parts is the tricky part. Hell, my axle swap project, plans changed daily, maybe even hourly haha
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Re: 2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

Postby ApproachMedium » Sat Jul 02, 2016 12:50 pm

You need to mod the core support to move the radiator and condenser up. It really wont fit well otherwise with all the fittings and connections on the rad will hit engine components. The interpid fans i dont even know what year mine came from. They all looked the same in the junkyard. The fans are DC so the poliarity could be reversed. I wouldnt even mess with perfection though. My intrepid fans work perfectly with the rad AND functional AC in the summer heat no problems. Even for a week down in florida I had no issues.

As for the exhaust save yourself the trouble and time and just buy a set of ceramic coated Sanderson headers made for the S10 v8 4x4. They will give you easy access to all of the plugs wires and other stuff inside of the truck. These trucks have been around for over 20 years now and many people have been doing V8 swaps on them over and over. If there was a better way to do it, i think somebody might have figured it out. Spending a few extra bucks here and there for the right parts will save you a ton of time and labor in the future if anything breaks down or even during installation making things simplier and straightforward to install. Good luck.
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Postby _STUCKY » Sat Jul 02, 2016 1:12 pm

Thanks Anthony. So what is it that you need to do to the radiator support? Anyone have pics?
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Re: 2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

Postby 87bluebird » Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:36 pm

Approachmedium
Do you got any pictures of how you did your core support? What brand motor mounts did you use? Did you use stock full size truck oil pan? What clearance issues did you have? Do those headers work with a 2 inch body lift? The 2.8 one from jags that run are the ones I am thinking of getting. Also curious what kind of fuel milage you get with a v8 in a cc

Stucky
The bravado shaft with a cast iron center from a standard truck was what I was thinking for front axle till I do a solid axle swap. and ya I am researching all I can and will gather as many parts and information as I can before I start the swap hopefully it will be go smoothly
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Re: 2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

Postby 87bluebird » Sat Jul 02, 2016 11:07 pm

From what I can tell the only electronic connection on s10 front axles is the 4wd indicator light. There's no electronic actuators on s10 axles like full sizes have so those wire on the t-case can be ignored just have to figure out how to wire the s10s axle 4wd indicator plug to the transfer case. If I use the bravada shaft that eliminates that plug from the axle so I would only have to run wires from the 4wd indicator in the t-case to a light in the cab? I think still not positive on this yet
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Postby _STUCKY » Sun Jul 03, 2016 4:20 am

Ok so to make the 241 work, with the bravada shaft, it's just a matter of putting it in gear, that's all. If you use the 233, with the bravada shaft, you are eliminating the vacuum actuator on the axle along with the issues that come with it. I never had a problem but the vacuum switch on the top of the 233 can go bad and suck atf from the tcase into the hvac(?) system. If you use the 241, the shifter setup is gonna be something you will need to get creative with. The 233, you can leave the buttons on the dash. Provided the dash buttons and the shift motor are good, it should work pretty well. I haven't had any issues with my 233, it's got a jeep front output shaft, a wide chain, Jbconversions short slip home eliminator, 241 6 gear planetary, and 1350 yokes front/rear. I left the electric shift though. With the vacuum and the front axle disconnect eliminated there's not much to go wrong. The dash light is in the shift buttons.

Approach medium has the jags that run brackets with the 2.8 style mounts (I think he told me he's just running regular rubber mounts from napa or wherever, nothing fancy) and he has 2 inch body lift as well.
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Re: 2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

Postby ApproachMedium » Sun Jul 03, 2016 9:55 pm

I have the Advance Adaptors 2.8-V8 mounts and then i am using 2.8L motor mounts. YOU MUST DO THIS OR YOU WILL HAVE MAJOR ISSUES. The 4.3L engine mounts BREAK under the torque of the V6 and will NOT handle the power of the V8 and not last! With the tight tolerances of the V8 engine stuffed in there, you will do damage. Heed this warning, or you know, break stuff... I dont have anything from the jags that run guy at all. The advanced adaptors were purchased thru Summit Racing and so were the 2.8L mounts which i believe i just bought stock GM replacement parts.

I can take pictures of my core support if they are not already in my build thread in the misc section. Its basically cut forward allowing the condenser and rad to sit a few inches forward of normal mounting locations. If i recall the headers do not matter for the 2 inch body lift but with the 2 inch body lift it makes things much easier to get to, that I know for sure (ive had my share of engine issues). I am getting crappy V8 mileage doing constant around town driving because when you idle 8 cylinders vs 6 you do burn a little more, but on the highway it does just slightly better if not the same as my v6. Typical average overall on this truck is 15-16mpg combined. 19-20 on all highway, long mileage trips. Keep in mind I am also running 30 inch tires, im carrying two 80lb rock sliders welded to my frame and whatever other beefed up junk we have added to this truck.
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Postby _STUCKY » Mon Jul 04, 2016 6:06 am

Whoopsy! Advanced adapters and jags that runs, both mounts are similar. Must be someone from the sfa section on s10forum I thinking of with jags that run mounts. Both use the 2.8 style though.
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Re: 2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

Postby 87bluebird » Mon Jul 04, 2016 6:53 am

Both mounts use 2.8 mounts only difference I can see is the jags that run claim to have it cut to sit lower than the advanced adapters mounts. Idk if the motor sitting lower will cause issues with oil pan differential clearance but the jags that run mounts are 75 the advanced adapter mounts are 85 so not a huge price difference.
I have read about people using steering shafts from explorers because they have double u joints or something only some v8 swap threads mention that, most don't. Would that help any?

Approachmedium do you have a link to your thread?
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Postby _STUCKY » Mon Jul 04, 2016 9:36 am

Look in the not otherwise specified (NOS) section.

As for steering shafts, one from a roughly 85-01 xj Cherokee should work as well, if you have a junkyard around.
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Re: 2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

Postby 87bluebird » Tue Jul 05, 2016 8:23 pm

Are different steering shafts actually necessary not all of swap threads mention it?

Today after work i spent an hour working on the motors donor truck till it was too dark to see. Started by knocking the donor truck off the blocks. I had it up about three feet off the ground when I pulled the tranny and left it. But the Tractor I used to get it up there is broke now so I had to get creative to get it back down but it's on the ground now. Then started disconnecting the wiring harness. Even though I don't plan to use this harness I am labeling every thing as I disconnect it so I can find it later if I need any connectors or anything to make the v6 harness work on the 5.7 I couldn't think of what half this stuff is tho so I was more writing where they are lol I have done a lot of engine swaps with older carb engines this is the first time doing this with a fuel injected motor.
Couple things I didn't know are:
1. some round thing between the thermostat and ac pump.
2.A little box next to the spider injector plug on passenger side
3. another connector just behind spider injector plug. Maybe map sensor?
4. a plug that goes to a aluminum thing hanging off the coil
5.the plug right next to throttle position sensor
Do you guys know what any of them are called? That's literally what I wrote on them to label them lol Tomorrow is my day off I plan to try to get that motor rest of the way out and want to get the flywheel changed and clutch and tranny attached to it. So when I get the Sonoma stripped I can shove it in as one big price.

Do you know how big the stock v6 radiator is? Haven't towed the Sonoma here yet to measure it. If the full size trucks radiator ain't much bigger I might try to cut the core support enough to use it because It is designed for a v8 and it has a built in oil cooler with spots for the oil lines to connect on the driver side and it is from a standard truck so no tranny fluid cooler. Plus I have 2 of these radiators so I would have a spare. I got to cut the core support to shove the radiator forward so if I am cutting anyway doesn't hurt to cut a Little extra. If it ain't to much. That radiator is 18.5 inches tall and 41 inch wide. and the inside were the cooling fins are is 34 inches wide so that's how big fan shroud would have to be.
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Re: 2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

Postby 87bluebird » Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:03 pm

A s10 radiator is 16x26 according to what I read on the one swap thread so the fullsize truck radiator is way to big but everyone uses the v6 radiator and says it works
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Re: 2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

Postby 87bluebird » Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:06 pm

Also I called a junkyard around the corner from were I work and they have a heavy duty 6 blade intrepid fan from a 02 for 75 bucks if it's still there Friday I will get it before work
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Re: 2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

Postby ApproachMedium » Wed Jul 06, 2016 2:04 pm

My motor is as far up and forward on the mounts as it can go. This helps with axle clearance, there really isnt much. A 2wd you would want the motor lower. You will also thank yourself for this later when you go to change the oil because theres about 2 oil filters on this planet that fit inside there without taking the 4x4 driveshaft off.

I did not do anything to my steering shaft for it to fit.

Forget all of that oil cooler nonsense! Just get the 7qt pan or the 7qt canton racing pan (makes life 120% easier) and with that much oil, you dont need a cooler as it has plenty time to cool off in the sump. The S10 coolers are because the oil pan is so small plus they ALWAYS leak. Its a failure point you do not want on something that already has enough problems. As far as radiators go the v6 one i have had zero issues with so far. Since you are not using the tranny cooler you can just plug it or leave it open like i did with my oil cooler side.

1. Round thing is EGR valve, You will not need this in your newer crew, they were omitted after 2001
2. Little box is a purge valve if it is bolted directly into the top of the intake manifold.
3. This is the map sensor
4. Aluminum thingy off coil is your ICM. This is needed and no different between the 4 6 or 8 cyl engine. basically timing in the computer tells this when to fire the coil.
5. TPS and IAC are the two things on the throttle body. The idle air controllers are the same v8 or v6 i think. We acutally took the throttle body off of the v6 and put it on the V8 because all of the linkage mounts etc were on the correct sides for the S10 and saved a ton of work. The two throttle bodies are exactly the same other than linkage hardware etc.
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Re: 2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

Postby 87bluebird » Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:40 pm

Isn't the v6 throttle body smaller bore? I was gonna try to find a 7.4l throttle body because they have a slightly larger bore than the 5.7 throttle body. Could the the throttle plate shaft be interchanged between the v6 and v8 throttle bodys I know the 5.7 and 7.4 throttle body shafts can interchange. If the v6 one can maybe use the v6 throttle body shaft on a 7.4 throttle body so it will hook up to cables from the v6. I want to get the Canton pan was also considering get a remote oil filter so I can mount oil filter somewhere more accessible. Should I just leave egr there but unplugged?

Today did a Lil more work pulling v8 out then had to stop to pull a tranny from another truck then I went over to my friends house were the Sonoma is and started to put rear brakes lines on almost done just got to get one more fitting to connect it to abs module. The evap canister in the back's mount is broken and I leaned against it and snapped it off and broke the line that goes up to the purge valve so that's gotta get fixed now.
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Re: 2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

Postby 87bluebird » Wed Jul 06, 2016 4:46 pm

I looked up egr valves the express van still has them in the 5.0 and 5.7 but the Sonoma's and s10s Astros and gmc's version of the astro stopped using them in 1999. 2000 and up v6s don't have them. I so I will have to add wire and pins to hook it up or delete it in the pcm probably will hook it up seems as its there. do the Sanderson swap headers come with a port to connect the egr tube?
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Re: 2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

Postby ApproachMedium » Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:49 pm

We measured both units side by side they are exactly the same from the 97 5.7 vortec and the 2002 4.3l vortec that i had. its too easy to just stick it on there and it works just fine. When i had the V6 i modified the throttle blade so that wasnt an issue. My truck screams and goes plenty.

You can leave the EGR unplugged. Your emissions settings are going to go based on the year of the truck you are operating not what year the motor came from. For example, my truck is a 2002 and my computer is programmed as a 2002 Express van which does not have the EGR system. Either way, your programmer can delete or disable any features as you request but this depends on what your state emissions laws are etc. On mine everything is functioning as it should for a 2002 and passes NJ state emissions inspections. your crew should not have anything in the computer to pin to the EGR valve anyways.
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Re: 2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

Postby 87bluebird » Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:34 pm

Was trying to make a list of what all is needed for this project. So far I got:

1. Motor mounts
2. Transmission crossmember bushing
3. Computer reprogramed
4. electric tape and solder
5. Spark plugs and wires and wire shields
6. A lot of degreaser
7. Elbow for knock sensor
8. Heavy duty 6 blade Intrepid fans and a relay
9. 2 inch body lift
10. Sanderson 4wd v8 s10 swap headers
11. Bung to weld into headers if I use egr
12. High temperature grill paint
13. Flanges that bolt to header collectors to weld to y pipe
14. Maybe a remote oil filter system
15. Por15 to paint engine bay floor firewall and frame while everything is apart.
16. New alternator s10 and donor truck both have bad bearings in the alternator will upgrade to the ad244 high output
17. Longer belt
18. Bung to weld into exhaust for 4th o2 sensor
19. New rear main seal (still got to look up if 97 is 1 peice or 2 peice rear main)
20. new water pump while it's easily accessible
21. new u joints while drive shafts are out
22. Radiator hoses upper and lower (still don't know what to get)
23. Oil coolant tranny oil transfer case atf
24. Transfer case shifter (still unknown what)

Is there anything I forgot or don't know yet? I will look up prices for all that and get an idea of total cost probably be atleast 2 grand not bad at least I already had the motor trans and new clutch kit so don't have to buy them and I only payed 800 for the truck and should be able to get at least 600 back selling the v6 and 4l60e
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Re: 2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

Postby ApproachMedium » Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:42 pm

5. Dont even mess with factory wires. Buy a custom wire kit like taylor wires. Factory wires are too short for the front cylinders and will burn and melt on your headers. It happened to me.
13. comes with your sanderson headers.
14. Such a bad idea, but my opinion lol.
17. ? for what? You will reuse your 4.3L accessories and brackets for the swap. They bolt right to the 350, and all the components will fit in your truck. Some of the v8 stock parts will not like the power steering pump.
18. is not needed. I have two 02 sensors upstream and only one downstream. The 4th was disabled because I dont have it. You will also need new 02 sensors, preferably Denso or AC Delco (see my disaster in my thread on this one) you will need to repin the o2 sensor plugs at the plug and computer. I can try to get you the P/N for the sensors if you need it.
19. Might as well do all the gaskets on the motor while it is out of the truck. I did all of mine, it still leaks oil though but nowhere near as bad as the v6 did.
21. Make sure they are non greaseable type. I made that mistake too. First few months of the v8 blew out the factory u joints replaced with greaseables they lasted less than two years before they were destroyed. Replaced with OEM GM P/N from the dealer.

Probably stuff you forgot but eventually youll figure it out as you go. There was a lot of little things with mine that dave and i stumbled upon.
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Re: 2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

Postby 87bluebird » Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:22 pm

I always buy performance plug wires and cut to length needed so I know they are correct length plus I will get plug wire heat shields to protect them
I didn't know they came with collector flanges a lot of headers don't.
Why don't you like remote oil filters? Yeah it's another part that could leak but it's worth that risk to be able to easily change my oil filter.
The longer belt is because of the upgraded alternator direct bolt in but belt needs to be 1 inch longer I think it's 97.5 inch long belt will be needed still need to double check the length have the part number needed for belt wrote down
I remember reading s10s o2s are case ground and express vans are not new o2s is one thing I forgot on that list
The motor was fully rebuilt only 20thousand miles before frame broke that's why I bought the truck as a donor engine bay is still clean and dry other than by steering box where there was a power steering line leak. so I shouldn't need to change all the gaskets but might do intake gaskets and rear main just to be safe water pump and oil pan will get new gaskets when they get changed probably a new thermostat too to be safe
The grease channel in greasable u joints is major week spot and common failure points I agree with not using them
I am sure I will find a lot of little things that I forgot as I do this
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Re: 2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

Postby ApproachMedium » Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:35 pm

I dislike the remote oil filters because i had to change mine and the cooler lines twice on the v6 engine because the fittings failed in 5 years. I also lost so much oil that I drove the truck to the shop with basically no oil in it at all because the motor mounts broke, crushed the oil cooler lines, and were pissing it out anytime id accelerate the engine. I had no idea this was happening until it was on the lift. Should i have checked the oil more? Probably. That was the final straw that led me to do the V8 swap because at that point even though my V6 ran it was shot and would not pass emissions inspections. Its just something that for what its worth, the extra few minutes of changing the oil filter and having one that goes directly to the engine, and like 10 less places for oil to leak from when a hose fitting fails is a good peace of mind. Ive been using the truck this way for almost 3 years now and only one time i had trouble getting a filter that would fit without taking the drive shaft off. Taking the shaft off was easy though, it only has to be disconnected from the yoke on the front diff and you can get to the filter just fine.
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Postby _STUCKY » Thu Jul 07, 2016 6:59 am

I also agree to forget about an oil cooler. I planned to exnay it with the axle swap. When I started taking bolts out, it disintegrated. It always leaked.

On the ujoints, I very much prefer non greasable spicers.

Where are you located?
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Re: 2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

Postby 87bluebird » Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:02 pm

I live in Portageville NY it's a small town in western NY. If I eliminate the oil cooler system could I run the power steering lines through the oil cooler part of the radiator to eliminate the power steering cooler in front of the radiator that is all rusted and looks like it will brake when I remove it to pull core support.
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Re: 2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

Postby _STUCKY » Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:10 pm

I'm sure you probably could but personally I would (and did) eliminate that too.
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Re: 2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

Postby 87bluebird » Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:44 pm

My Subaru jumped time. It ran good I shut it off for about 30 minutes went to restart it and it was just sputtering and backfiring pulled codes for cam sensor and crank sensor replaced both them and still doing it. Makes no sense it ran great on way there plus timing belts were just replaced when headgasket was done 2 years ago only 20thousand miles since then. So figured I would see if the Sonoma could be put on the road and driven with the v6 a couple weeks till I find another motor to put in the Subaru. My friend only bought the Sonoma a couple months ago and didn't do much with it so all we knew about it was it needed brakes and a battery. Yesterday put rear brake lines on. Today tried to bleed them the breeders are all froze in place even heating till bleeders are glowing red still won't budge but while fighting them discovered leak in front brake line so bought fitting to replace them to but forgot to get more brake line. Felt like an idiot lol by that time parts store was closed so couldn't go back to get line but a grabbed a battery out of another truck and put it in the Sonoma battery worked I in other truck but don't even click in Sonoma but I grabbed jumper cables and it started but it wouldn't stay running kept trying to idle around 500rpm then would stall out. adjusted throttle cable to raise idle to 800 got it idling steady. so started to try to figure out what was going on with battery engine will run with battery unhooked so alternator is good. It starts perfectly with jumper cables and so cables are good. I cleaned wire ends but it still won't start off the battery. put battery back into other truck and it still works so battery is good then all of a sudden idle jumped from 800 rpm to 1450 rpm for no reason and wouldn't come back down no matter what I did. I tried working on that but was getting very frustrated so I packed my tools and left at that point
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Re: 2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

Postby ApproachMedium » Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:09 pm

it sounds like the fuseable link next to the battery may be no good. Where are you connecting the jumper cables? One of your battery cables could be bad or have a rusted/no good ground. You do live in New york state after all, master state of rust lol.
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Re: 2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

Postby 87bluebird » Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:12 am

Was hooking jumper cables right at battery terminals. Clamped to the bolts or one point I had that battery out and jumper cables just clamped onto end of battery cables
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Re: 2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

Postby ApproachMedium » Fri Jul 08, 2016 8:44 am

Well it sounds like something isnt making a good connection to the battery then from the cables to the battery. If there is any corrosion clean the terminals good with baking soda and a wire brush. Make sure when you connect the battery to the truck that the terminals are good tight. If they are finger tight these trucks will not start.
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Re: 2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

Postby 87bluebird » Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:11 pm

I had cleaned them and had them tight last time I worked on it which is why it had me so confused. I grabbed the battery cables off a 97 fullsize Chevy I will try changing the cables on the Sonoma to these ones and will clean all connections as I do it. then cut them down to be just long enough to put top post ends on then I will put the battery from my Subaru in it. That battery is 3 months old and rated for 1000 cold amps so hopefully that will get rid of that problem. Also I grabbed the throttle body off the 5.7 and will try to put that on the 4.3 hopefully that will fix the idling issue. Got to take the old lady to an ob appointment at 4 then will stop and try doing this stuff to the Sonoma on way back.

About solid axle swaps I know most people use wagoneer axles is there a reason why not many people use axles from the old square body fullsize Chevys? Is it just they are wider so tires will stick out and that they are passenger side differential? I have a 87 1500 truck and a 90 k5 sitting in my yard both have good axles with 3.73 ratio gears and locking hubs the k5 being a 90 even has a passenger drop np241 transfer with electric speed sensor so passenger drop won't be a problem would just have to swap the 32 spline input from my drivers drop np241 into that t-case so it will be able to work with the 5 speed. Also i have a rear axle from a 97 z71 with the 3.73 ratio and posi (same truck 5 speed came from) . So only issue would be track width would make tires stick out. And would have to convert to cross over steering.

Other thing I was wondering is front Springs I wanted to use a set of 52s for more flex but I can't find anything on people using 52s in s trucks. Is there a reason why or am I just not looking in the right places
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Re: 2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

Postby 87bluebird » Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:28 pm

Fixed battery issue and it's now top post :) shaped throttle body to the 5.7 one with diffuser deleted. Now starts good and idles smooth. Still can't get brake bleaders broken loose and one fitting cross threaded and leaks so got to fix that. And figure what to do about bleeding them. But at least it starts and runs :) so I will be able to drive it soon hopefully I can either find a motor for the Subaru or fix that one so I can have that to drive and this can be a project truck. driving the Dodge to work every day is killing that fat pig is lucky to get 11mpg going down a steep hill the Subaru got between 27 and 30mpg
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Postby _STUCKY » Fri Jul 15, 2016 7:53 am

Ok so that 90 k5 has 10 bolts front and rear, they are not desirable. I wouldn't even consider using the rear 10 bolt, but if you have a semi float 14 bolt from the heavy half tons, it's a reasonable combo. That's what I ran in my k5 for a few years. Granted I ended up with chromoly shafts in the front. If you were to us that front 10 bolt, you'd need a passenger side flat top knuckle, drilled and tapped, and a high steer arm. Would also need an Astro van steering box. For steering, you could get by with simple crossover (draglink from pitman arm to passenger side) or you could get a drivers side high steer arm also and move the tierod up for full high steer.

As for leaves, are you talking about usin those in the front or rear? In front, they really are just too long. Not that it can't work, but they don't package well. Several people use Dakota rear leaves in front, or go with waggy front leaves. If you are talking about in the back, yea they should fit pretty easy, a few people have used those. I have lift waggy leaves, with a slightly longer custom main leaf in front spring under, with stock s10 springs spring over in the rear.

To make that tcase work in there, I believe you'll need a different adapter. Approachmedium actually sent me one maybe a year ago (thanks buddy! :wave:) I can get the part number if you need it. However, I've never messed with that trans so I may be wrong, but for an auto, you need it. Also the input is the old style, so ~94ish and before would be the years you'd need for the input swap.

Now, let's say I'm in your boat and going 5.7/manual/ and axle swap.... Depending on skills, available parts, money, time, ect.... (Don't forget time and money).... I think I'd hunt down a 70s ford high pinion 44 with the weld on wedges and a 6 lug semi float 14 bolt, swap the 44 to 6 lug, disk brake swap the sf14b, crossover steering, stock waggy springs sprig over in front, and use your choice of driver drop case. 6 lug wheels are very common, the hp44 can get d50 gears swapped in, the sf14b has huge shafts, the driver drop axle makes packaging pretty easy, full width so it'll feel stable in the twisty stuff, and if you don't like 6 lug, you could always swap the front to 8 lug and put in the full float 14 bolt (Dana 44s can be easily changed to 5, 6, or 8 lug with a few parts swapped here and there)

Now about that k5 transfer case.... Don't sell it super cheap (unless to me :thumb:) becuase that's a fairly rare version and is exactly what you'd need to make the s10 computer happy if you wanted passenger side drop. Personally though I probably wouldn't go passenger side drop unless you had a Chevy or dodge old school Dana 60. In that case, axle swap it and never look back! :evil:

There's only about 19 million different ways you could do an axle swap, it just comes down to budget, time, parts, ability to research what'll work and what won't work. It's not cheap (it can be though) and its not quick, but the result makes for a pretty decent platform for offroad sheenagins that doesn't say jeep on it. It does still have it limitations thiugh.

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Re: 2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

Postby 87bluebird » Fri Jul 15, 2016 6:56 pm

for now was thinking about using the 10 bolt out of the 90 k5 or the 87 1500. And ya would need flat top passenger knuckles to build cross over steering. When budget comes back up I will upgrade to a 80s Dodge Dana 60 with kingpins. Between buying the Sonoma, trying to get Sonoma running, feeding the fat Dodge truck, saving money to fix or replace Subaru, starting to collect parts for 5.7 swap, having a baby due any day, and boss cutting my hours back to no more than 65 hours a week my wallets getting thin... So use what I got for now is my plan for now.

Thanks for the info on crossover was wondering what kind of steering box I would need.

I was thinking 52 inches leafs off a 97 4 door Tahoe for my front leafs but was curious about running them spring under for less lift using them Springs spring over in the front of a k5 will lift it 6 inches. so that would be crazy lift compared to stock Sonoma height which is tempting but with young kids I can't lift it to much so still trying to decide. I want to use the 52s because they give a lot of articulation and fairly smooth ride

For the rear axle I was thinking for now using a axle from a 97 1500 z71 it's got position a 3.73 ratio and was going to leave the 64 inch rear springs on it then weld spring hangers onto the outside of the Sonoma frame to hang it. Rear of the spring shackle hanger trying to decide if I want drop shackles or not. Depends if I do front as spring over or spring under. Doing drop shackles in rear will lift about 4 more inches I can use a rear spring Frame end hanger off a fullsize as a drop shackle hanger. I will probably do spring over axle in front and drop shackles in rear because I like large lift the old lady and kids will have to learn to jump lol
I measured the Sonoma frame today it's the same width as the fullsize frame the Sonoma has is rear spring directly under the frame were the bump stops are on the dul
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Re: 2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

Postby 87bluebird » Fri Jul 15, 2016 7:08 pm

Stupid phone
The bump stops are directly under the rails on the full size. moving spring outside to were they are on a full size would help with stability also. Will have to weld on the spring hangers then figure out shock mounts I have new shocks for a 90s full size sitting under the back seat of my Dodge I will bolt them in the Sonomas stock shock mounts then measure axles travel up and down then figure out how high on the axle to bolt those shocks and make mounts

That t case don't need an adapter to mate to the nv3500 it's the standard round pattern Chevy has used for a long time swapping input shaft is easy and the 32 spline shaft from the 97 truck case will fit perfectly in that case
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Re: 2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

Postby 87bluebird » Sat Jul 16, 2016 6:17 pm

1
Last edited by 87bluebird on Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

Postby 87bluebird » Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:56 am

I finally got the abs bled enough to get the truck drivable.
Couple issues it has are
1.power steering locks up at idle but if you rev the engine you can steer.
2.drivers door window only goes down about 3 inches very slowly and don't like to go back up.
3. Either ac don't work or blend door actuator is stuck it blows hot all the time with ac on its not as hot as with heat on.
4. fuel gauge don't work. Put 5 gallons in it and still says empty. I think that is a ground because when I removed the taillight ground from the frame it shut the engine off instantly and wouldn't restart till I hooked that ground back up.
5. Always wants to spin the tires lol I need to put some weight back there
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Re: 2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

Postby 87bluebird » Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:49 pm

Sonoma is on the road welded an old bumper on it and did some half ass tail lights so it's legal looks like s### but good enough to use till I fix the Subaru and this can go back to being a project. I drove to get dinner and some idiot already backed into it didn't damage anything but the guy gave me 100 to not report it. That 100 will be used to get a fuel tank for it. The fuel gauge works if it is over a half a tank but if you get over 3/4 tank it leaks out the side of the tank bad. Phone ain't letting me load photos something about low memory soon as I figure that out I will post some pics of the stupid lights and the bumper. For the lights i used the little brackets that bolt the drive shafts u joints on the axle. I had some old ones laying in the parts bin the holes fit perfectly over the studs on some universal trailer lights I welded them brackets to some 3/4 inch flat stock about 5 inch long didn't measure lol then welded the flat stock to the little piece of the bed that is still on it. Goofy but effective. Still need to hook up some cheap fog lights for reverse lights did it cheap and half ass with s### I had laying around because it's just temporary till I fix the Subaru.
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Re: 2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

Postby 87bluebird » Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:30 pm

Will a Blazer fuel tank fit? I found one for 20 bucks
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Re: 2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

Postby 87bluebird » Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:12 pm

Finally got my phone to load some pictures ignore the boogery welds the rust was giving me trouble.
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5.7 mostly unhooked from donor
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Re: 2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

Postby 87bluebird » Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:41 pm

I found a 86 wagoneer that's about an hour drive from me for 250 bucks for whole thing or 150 for axles driveshafts Springs steering rods and steering box. Runs but tyranny is bad but that don't matter only want it for the axles. Still trying to decide buy whole thing and sell extra parts or buy just parts I need.
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Postby _STUCKY » Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:08 am

Dang, for 250 I'd drag the whole thing home. You can't use the steering box on an s10, the mounts are different. But waggy boxes are somewhat desirable if it has a "76" stamped on it. They have some beefier internals. I don't know what all they fit. Also you might check if it has a Dana 44 or an amc 20 in the back. The 20 is not really desirable. I'm running a waggy 44 front with Chevy 8 lug brakes and a cab and chassis 14 bolt in the rear. A single rear wheel 14 bolt with dually hubs would get the same width.
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Re: 2002 4wd crewcab Sonoma vortec 5.7 and nv3500 swap

Postby 87bluebird » Sat Aug 06, 2016 12:02 pm

The wagoneer is 83 not 86 wrote wrong year. I could part out the rest of it and easily double my money but having a hard time finding a trailer to borrow.

I mentioned the steering box so I could get the pitman arm off it. A lot of people get an astro steering box because they are reverse rotation which makes the pitman arm point towards the front. One problem with the astro box is they are a 16:1 ratio. I want quick ratio steering like the old 12.7:1 boxes you can get from 80s Monte Carlo ss or 80s ws6 Trans ams and some irocs. Those old boxes are Saginaw 800s and normal steering with pitman arm towards the back. The 94+ Sonomas and s10s are Saginaw 605s. Idk if Astros are 605s or 800s can't find a straight answer on that I think early astros had 800s then switched to 605s in mid 90s like "s" trucks did. 605s and 800s use same mounts. Just have to watch if it mounts inside frame or outside frame. fittings for hoses are different, there are adapters for that. The 800s and 605s can easily be identified by the cover were the pitman arm shafts Comes out. 800s have 4 bolts 605s use a snap ring. Also the 800s have 76 stamped on them as you mentioned. The 800s are slightly larger And have stronger gears. I was thinking of trying to get a reverse 800 box from an older van and 12.7:1 box and a rebuild kit and swap the 12.7 ratio gears and shafts into the reverse box.

Is the dually axle 60 inch wms to wms?
What ratio are you using?
Do you know if a chevy Dana 44 center section will fit in the Jeep Dana 44? from what I have read trying to look that up 3.73 and down will interchange between ford chevy dodge and jeep 3.92 and up have a different something. If that's true I will take a 3.73 from a chevy Dana 44 I got and swap it into the Jeep Dana 44 also plan to put chevy manual locking hubs into the wagoneer.
What all did you need to swap to get the wagoneer Dana 44 converted to 8 lug?
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Postby _STUCKY » Sun Aug 07, 2016 9:27 am

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/chevy/22 ... tml#/enter

Don't think too much about the quick ratio steering box. I tried a few different boxes and ended up building my own. I used a stock s10 case and put around 99 Chevy express van guts in it. One problem I had with the Astro box is that there is spacer in there that limits the travel of the piston and a cap to match. My turning radius was terrible.

The cab and chassis 14 bolt is 63 inches wide. The narrow trac waggy 44 in 6 lug is about 60 inches, but the 8 lug parts push it out to 63.5. I used dodge flat top knuckles, then mid 80s Chevy 3/4 ton spindles hubs and brake brackets.

As far as the Chevy 44 vs the waggy 44, yea that should swap. Keep in mind the waggy 6 lug stuff, from the inner c out, it's the same as the Chevy stuff. There may be slight differences in things like the brake brackets but it's all interchangeable. 8 lug Chevy hubs have a different offset than the 6 lug counter part. As for the actual differential, just make sure you are using a Chevy 44 and not a 10 bolt.

I am running a thick cut ring gear from the rear of a jeep jk rubicon in my front 44 with a jantz kit. The real beef in that is the pinion gear, which is the size of a d60 pinion. I'm running 4.10s with a spartan locker in front and a Detroit in the back.
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