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Postby MinnesotaMudder » Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:19 pm

quick question I am going to school to become a cop. I was wondering if any one knows what the current hand gun they use on the police force is.
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Postby paintballrocker » Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:22 am

my cusin is a cop near in the city by me, everyone there uses a glock 17 in 9mm. i think thats is what most agencies use. my brother has one and i like his, we put 500 shots through it one day and didnt clean it for 3 years, and when we took it back out it shot fine ahah
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Postby MinnesotaMudder » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:15 am

thanks for the information I wasent sure if they were still using the glock 9mm I thought they were switching to the glock 22 40. S&W.
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Postby paintballrocker » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:47 am

well different agencies probably use different cal. depending on the types of crime. i could be wrong, but thatswhat i think. i could ask my cusin this weekend and see
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Postby F9K9 » Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:37 pm

Every jurisdiction has their own preferences. KY SP went from a 357 S&W revolver to a S&W 10mm semi auto, then went to Glocks in a 40. My agency went from 357s to a Sig Sauer 9mm and then to a Glock 40. It is about like comparing Ford owners to GM owners to Toyota owners ........etc. Some agencies permit you to carry whatever you want, as long as you qualify with it.
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Postby HenryJ » Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:17 pm

At what distance do they qualify?

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Postby F9K9 » Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:14 pm

Generally from 1 yd to 25 yd with sidearms but, sometimes out to 50 yd. 25 and 50 yd with shot gun. 100 yd for rifle and up to 15 yd for off duty or back up weapon. Border Man would have a lot more info when he chimes in. His agency was usually a step ahead of most excect, for the Ruger thing back in the days after the FBI took such a hit in Miami, FL. That is just one man's opinion. They had a lot of nice guns only available to them. I went through school way back when and they were still using belt loops for spare ammo but, they were as quick with them on reloading times as we were using speed loaders.

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Postby HenryJ » Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:59 pm

Talked to one of the local PD and he thinks it was under 25 yds. Maybe 20 yds max. Cut a playing card in half and you pass.
I hope to hear back from the instructor and take the class in a couple weeks.
I am going to go out and practice this weekend.

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Postby JaVeRo » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:40 pm

My favorite truck gun is a Puma stainless steel lever action .357/.38 . I can load it with .38's and shoot tin cans without breaking the pocket book or load it with the right .357's and have a minimal deer gun (East Texas Deer). Most of the shots where I hunt would be less than 75 yards.

If I go deer hunting I take a 30-30 marlin but if I'm just checking the feeders I take the .357 in hopes of running up some feral hogs. If the wind is blowing just right I can get within about 25 yards of the bog that the hogs like to bed up in.

Hornaday has a new round, Leverevolution, made for the lever action guns including the .357 but I haven't found it on the shelf yet.

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Postby F9K9 » Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:26 pm

Brule, to pass the LEOSA test, that is the course for retired officers to carry concealed nationwide is 30 rounds at 21 ft with zero time limit. I mean, I am not boasting or anything like that but, Lauie could pass shooting "weak" handed blindfolded at that range. Maybe OR has stricter standards but, wild west cutting playing cards in half? I love you to death bro but, are you sure you recovered from that near death thing while painting the HenryJ?

I can hook you up with instructors elsewhere. I suspect your playing card buddy is getting a little "pay back" from what I am sure is due. :wink:
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Postby 04crewvt » Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:02 am

Just finished my annual re-qualifying for my job last month.
As an FPS contract guard our contract requires us to carry .38 special, 2 speed loaders and only 18 rounds of 110gr sjhp ammo. We must qualify at 3,7.15,25 yards both strong and weak hand from the 3 and 7, 15 and 25 from standing and kneeling barricade. This is timed and using a fixed sight Ruger GP100. We shoot 60 rounds on target for a max total of 300 points 210 is minimum passing. At 3 yards it's a 2 second time limit to draw and fire on target from a level 2 holster. We have one stage at 15 that requires us to draw, fire 2 kneeling, stand and reload, fire 2 more and we have 17 seconds for it. We have some shooters in the high 280's but most run in the 230-250 range which is where they want us.
Govt. wants us to carry Sig 226 in .40 but due to gun laws in a couple of the states we have to use the revolvers. BTW the course was set up and timed for semi-autos not revolvers making it all that much tougher.
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Postby F9K9 » Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:48 pm

04crewvt wrote:................BTW the course was set up and timed for semi-autos not revolvers making it all that much tougher.
Don't even go there Brian! :lol:

I am still certified and am the instructor here and the idiots are still using "load with six" BS! I need to find some "google" time to research this "cut a playing card in half" thing. I am thinking Brule is getting a prank pulled on him.

Ain't saying what he is saying isn't the truth but, something is "afoot" here.
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Postby border man » Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:06 pm

We carry new H&K P2000s in 40cal. Prior to that the patrol used the Berretta 96D brigadier models in 40cal also. I was also issued an H&K USP compac which I just turned in a few months ago. Prior to the auto 40s, the patrol was still using wheel guns in 357 clear into the mid nineties. Our qual goes from the 1.5 yard to the 25yrd with 72 rounds used for a total possible of 360 points.
I didn't do it, it was already like that when I got it.
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Postby F9K9 » Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:21 pm

Thanks for posting up with the real time stuff, Border Man!
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Postby HenryJ » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:19 pm

HenryJ wrote:I am going to go out and practice this weekend.
I suck :( Not happy with my performance.
My eyesight is not what it once was. The self inflicted lasik did not help me , I'm sure.

At 25 yds I am at 10% or less in a 10" circle. At 15 yds probably 50% in a 10" circle. At 7 yds probably 80% in a 10" circle and less than 50% total in a 4" circle at that distance.

My first five rounds were high. I had forgotten that this one is set up to sit on top of my sights. The lazer was set low, but I was not using it.
My groups were left of center, but I tend to that side a little. I will talk myself in to straightening things up. I would like to blame more on the poor reloads, but it was mostly the operator in this case I am sure. I did have a good handful of reloads that were too swelled to seat properly. Half a dozen wedged :mad: These were best burned up in practice. I may have gone through 100 rounds.

Tach is doing much better with the BB pistol. It is an old Crossman air pistol. His accuracy at 7 yds is improving. He did have a couple good shots.

The rain had us quitting early. Hopefully I will get some more time tomorrow.

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Postby F9K9 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:43 pm

Brule, the concealed carry qual here is 30 rds at 7 yds, no time limit.
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Postby HenryJ » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:54 pm

f9k9 wrote:... the concealed carry qual here is 30 rds at 7 yds, no time limit.
How many in what size group?
I think I can put them all on a sillouette, if that is what they use. I am not too sure how many would be in the kill. I'll practice again tomorrow.
I may have to go to the eye doctor and get glasses. That would clear things up, I'm sure.

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Postby 04crewvt » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:29 pm

Sounds like you might be jerking the trigger a bit. My range instructor had a good drill to test that. Take an empty gun and balance an empty cartridge on the end of the muzzle, with your arm at full extension slowly squeeze the trigger, if you are nice and smooth it will stay in place, if not it will fall off.
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Postby HenryJ » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:57 pm

How are you going to balance an empty cartridge on the end of the muzzle at full extension? Point it straight up?

I am sure that there are some issues with operator error. Mine has a fairly light single action pull. That doesn't mean I am not weak arming and jerking it around.
I did not empty a magazine with out a problem shell. That throws a guy off for sure. I am saving the good stuff for when it counts.

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Postby 04crewvt » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:04 pm

LOL -muzzle end I should say just behind the sights, this only works if you have a flat spot of course Not sure what handgun you are using.
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Postby F9K9 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:10 pm

We're talking a large area from what I can see on your laws. If, you can keep it inside 16" you oughta be good.

BTW, kick that cop in the shins for that "cutting a playing card" advice. :lol:
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Postby HenryJ » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:25 pm

I am sure it was not cut on edge. It may have been put enough rounds through one to cut a piece off. I think I can do that in 30 rounds ;)
I can keep them all within 12" for sure at 7 yds. I may be able to put them all in 16" at 15 yds, but I have my doubts at 25 yds.
Some practice is definitely needed. It had been so long I had to learn the gun all over again.

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Postby F9K9 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:50 pm

I saw 10 yds mentioned as the max, Brule. I tried several different searches but, darkness was falling and I needed to play with my K9. Your CCW is honored here btw. The majority of officer involved gun fights are within 7 yds. It's also an accepted fact that an adversary with a knife within 7 yds and you holstered is open season on them. It's all about that "reactionary gap".

Don't feel bad about the glasses routine. My eyesight started going at 40. Started wearing bifocals shortly thereafter at 41 or so. :lol:

I got plenty of ribbing on how that I had to focus on the front sight and blur everything else out. It is true. an old dog can be taught new tricks! I swapped out to contacts in '02 but, it is a compromise. I still need several "Dr Walmart" "throw down" glasses stashed in appropriate locations for intricate work. :wink:

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Postby HenryJ » Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:48 pm

Well I can already see that I am going to need a pair of the "Wally World magnifiers"
I have been avoiding the glasses for long range stuff, but passing the Hazmat physicals eye exam was difficult last year.
I probably should not be so stubborn. I have insurance coverage for vision. I should probably use it.

A friend from California told me the rule of 21. It really is an eye opener. You would think you have more time than that to react.
I hope you're right about being all less than 10 yds. I'll concentrate on that.

On an edged weapons note, I picked up a used Becker Tac Tool.

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Kind of a nice heavy knife. It has taken up residence on the side of my seat back.
Last edited by HenryJ on Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby F9K9 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:26 pm

Unless you purposely fail, Bro, you will just have to fork over the money and pass well over 70%! I promise you that Laurie, with zero training could pass with no training. It is ridiculous! To keep my nationwide permit is way to easy. 30 rds at 7 yds w/o time limits. If, you are shooting a semi, I saw that you need two mags and a strong side holster. Looks like you may need 100-150 rds of factory stuff. You mentioned shooting left (IIRC). As mentioned earlier, you are anticipating the shot. Once you think it is correct,you are hitting the skinny in anticipation. There is no time limit here. Squeeze the trigger keeping the front sight focused in and the rear sight and target fuzzy. When you know that you did that correctly and the shot startles you.........you will have a perfect shot.
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Postby HenryJ » Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:35 pm

f9k9 wrote:...Squeeze the trigger keeping the front sight focused in and the rear sight and target fuzzy.
I will give that a try. I seem to try to focus back and forth. I'll try concentrating on the front sight.

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Postby F9K9 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:47 pm

HenryJ wrote:........... I'll try concentrating on the front sight.
That is basically it in a nut shell, cliff notes or whatever. Not sniper stuff but, handgun basics. You will pass easier than you did your ham license.

When time limits are thrown into the fray then, we toss out the front sight picture at close ranges. Instinctive shooting and muscle memory starts to play a role then.

No need for you to be concerned about that now. Campfire talks in 5 months over a hard earned cold brew sounds fitting.
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Postby HenryJ » Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:52 pm

The lazer does a good job of acquiring a target in low light and off kilter situations. It will work for a pretty tight group in quick order. Even around a corner or over a barricade if the need exists. Under the threat of a clock, that might be useful. Pray for cloudy skies ;)

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Postby F9K9 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:55 pm

HenryJ wrote:...............I'll try concentrating on the front sight.
When time is available, focus on the front sight and if, your alignment is centered with the rear sight and the target is fuzzy. u be at where you need to be! Combine that with the gun startling you when the thing goes bang................. suicidal ducks are not in the equation.
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Postby HenryJ » Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:07 pm

How much affect do you think bad ammo is having on the equation?
Some of it is really tight. I doesn't eject well , jams and wedges. I can only guess it is interfering with the barrel seating properly.
I am shooting a Beretta 92FS 9mm. The only ammo around is 115 FMJ. I know it really used to like the 115 JHP, but I have only one magazine of that left in my supplies.
I will shoot new stuff not the cheap reloads for the class. Maybe that will help?

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Postby F9K9 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:41 pm

HenryJ wrote:How much affect do you think bad ammo is having on the equation?..........................
It has everything affecting the equation, except the grouping left, Brule. If, the group is consistently left then you are "anticipating" what you think is a perfect shot, telling yourself "now" and yanking it off. If, you are not doing that then you need to use KY windage and aim right of the "zone"

I never liked the Beretta and have no armorer skills with it. I can assist with Sigs and Glocks. If, the shot is startling you then ou either need the sights adjust right a tad or do the KY windage thing.

You are aware that there is a problem and if, you are not forcing the shot then aiming right will assist you without sight adjustment. Keep in mind that if your 92 is hitting 4 inches left at 7 yds then you are going to have to find a sweet spot to aim at when you are at longer distances.

I really do not think qualification is an issue here. Education for Tac and Laurie is an issue here. You will pass, I promise!
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Postby HenryJ » Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:35 am

f9k9 wrote:If, the group is consistently left then you are "anticipating" what you think is a perfect shot, telling yourself "now" and yanking it off. If, you are not doing that then you need to use KY windage and aim right of the "zone"
You are aware that there is a problem and if, you are not forcing the shot then aiming right will assist you without sight adjustment.
IIRC this gun has always grouped left a little. Easily corrected by squeezing the right two dots slightly. I actually think that I may have been holding left a little. The shots were in a horizontal group more than a circle, so that would indicate more what you are saying , a "left pull" on my part. It may be just the way my eyes work too. I tend to shoot eyes open and maybe the off eye is doing more than I think?

Hopefully we will have clear skies today and I'll try again with a tip or two and experiences of the day before.

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Postby 04crewvt » Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:37 am

I gave up on shooting with both eyes open it just messes with my aim. I am left handed but right eye dominant.
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Postby F9K9 » Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:56 am

04crewvt wrote:I gave up on shooting with both eyes open it just messes with my aim. I am left handed but right eye dominant.
Is there anything normal about you Brian? :lol:
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Postby HenryJ » Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:56 am

I may try closing one eye and see if that helps.

I heard this guys name from a friend last week: How to shoot a handgun accurately By Massad Ayoob

from another article wrote:# Improve your stance by closing your eyes! That's right, while pointing downrange, close your eyes and take what you feel to be the ideal, comfortable stance. Now open your eyes-- naturally you will be aiming off target. Instead of moving your arm and shoulder to aim at the target, MOVE ONLY YOUR FEET. You have just gotten into a stance for your natural point of aim-- the most comfortable for your body.


from another article wrote:Controlling your breathing is also critical to accurate shooting. Start taking deep breaths before you get into your shooting stance. When you steady your breathing, you will want to fire at the end of your exhale. When you breath your chest expands which moves your arms, causing t he gun to rise and fall, so you want to make sure that when firing, your chest isn't moving.

Make sure that you don't hold your breath.

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Postby 04crewvt » Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:54 am

Normal does not apply in my case. They even had to special order my long sleeve uniform shirts. The regular supplier on hearing I needed a 5xl 40-42 sleeve length shirt said, and I quote "well why did you hire someone so big we don't have anything that size in stock and will not order any for him"
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Postby F9K9 » Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:56 pm

Don't mean to freak you out, Brule but, Massad Ayoob was in my top ten list of heroes before your " Do you think you will want to get into off
roading" curse. :lol:




We may be confusing you and you may be reading to much into all of this. You do not need to worry about breathing at 7 yds, It is not about 1" groups at 100 yds. You just need "hits" in a relatively large target. Breathing and squeezing off shots is all very nice but, at 7 yds you need to be the first with the mostest (sp intentional). Lighting up a drag slick 3 times the size you are running is not important. Elapsed finish time is.
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Postby MinnesotaMudder » Sun Oct 25, 2009 4:34 pm

Does anyone know what the the police use for bullets, hollow point or full metal jacket.
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Postby 04crewvt » Sun Oct 25, 2009 4:37 pm

Most departments I know of have gone to semi jacketed or jacketed hollow points of some variety or another. As with the question of weapon, it will depend on the department.
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Postby F9K9 » Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:09 pm

MinnesotaMudder wrote:Does anyone know what the the police use for bullets, hollow point or full metal jacket.
Military "usually" goes with the full metal jacket or "ball" ammo as required by the Geneva convention. Law enforcement usually goes with a variant of the hp round. There has been some work done and experimentation with a FM round and it is beginning to look promising.

Brule, your rear site is in a dovetail, correct? Grab a box of surplus 9mm ammo and just shoot at the same location from a rest. Try it with 3 rds for each string of fire. Here is the part that I know will put a sparkle in those eyes of yours. :D If, the group is consistently left, take a brass punch and a hammer and make a very slight movement of the rear site to the right. You always move the rear sight where you want the round to go. Much easier than those watts and amp things that you want me to learn. :lol:

I don't sweat minor stuff like a gun grouping left when I know it is the gun and not me. The sweet spot is huge and until I get back to 25 yds and farther away, I basically blow it off. At 25 yds I am already looking for alternatives and am behind cover or looking at escape routes. I got myself burnt up with paint balls or simunition standing still and trying to use KY windage. I had an instructor in my firearms instructor recert that would light us up any time we stopped to shoot. I just relaxed and fell back into mind set that I had in a jungle a long time ago. I lit him up and had a beer bought for me at the student center that evening. We aren't looking at a christmas tree and staging here. The target is larger than life and 10 yds away w/o a time limit.

Image
Image



The inner two areas count as the same, 5 points. Next area out is a loss of 1 point or 4 points for a hit. Here, all we have to do is hit the thing anywhere 7 out of 10 times and you qualify.

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Postby HenryJ » Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:24 pm

f9k9 wrote:... your rear site is in a dovetail, correct? Grab a box of surplus 9mm ammo and just shoot at the same location from a rest. Try it with 3 rds for each string of fire. Here is the part that I know will put a sparkle in those eyes of yours. :D If, the group is consistently left, take a brass punch and a hammer and make a very slight movement of the rear site to the right. You always move the rear sight where you want the round to go.
Thank you very much. That makes it very clear for me. I had an old .22 Ruger that shot the same. I drifted the rear sight and it was dead on for me.
Today was set up for haunting the maze and I totally fried my arms. Post holes and chopping corn for six hours does not lend itself to a steady grip or stance. The wind has been blowing hard enough to put off practice for a few days.
I think I have a few tips to try and see where I place this time.

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Postby F9K9 » Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:54 pm

I am thrilled that I might have helped you. A small step in repaying a large debt that has grown immensely over five years. :wink:
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Postby 04crewvt » Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:14 am

That is the same target we qualify with BTW.
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Postby F9K9 » Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:02 am

04crewvt wrote:That is the same target we qualify with BTW.
Yep and Border Man too! :D I remember the big switch many years ago. It wasn't politically correct to shoot black targets so we started shooting blue and green ones. Kinda like shooting at cops and Martians. :lol:

Printed by our federal prisoners. :wink:

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Postby 04crewvt » Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:07 am

Good to know if we are attacked by the Blue Man Group or Martians we will all know where to shoot them. Remember though it is bad form to add up the score in a real shooting.
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Postby kwalsh » Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:03 am

Through all my years of shooting I've learned that there is a HUGE difference between the plinking tin can ammo & the high 'M&P' quality take down ammo I've used for qualification shooting.

HenryJ, you mentioned last week that you were not happy with your shooting. Could this be because you were shooting the cheaper plinking ammo? I've noticed my accuracy & precision is much improved with the 'M&P' quality ammo.
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Postby green02crew » Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:46 am

I've done a lot of simunitions training. As real world as you can get without the real thing. Brings up lots of questions and makes you think!
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Postby HenryJ » Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:08 am

Ok, so as the saying goes... "It's the ___ stupid!
Turns out the blank was...Ammo. The difference is night and day.

Image

That was the second magazine, first with new ammunition. I still need some practice but eight of those shots are grouped tight enough to be Ok with me. Shooting the reloads they are not very consistent. The difference was obvious as I went through about four magazines of each.

I had a couple better groups later on. Not as many in the same hole, but still about a 2" grouping.

The whole pulling left thing was just me the first time. I will try to blame it on the dirty front sight. Once cleaned good the white is much brighter. I am sure glasses would help my eyesight, but I think that I can still get by for now.

I do pull high right double action. That trend was disturbing , but this thing has a really hard double action pull and that big grip doesn't lend itself to very good leverage. Fortunately knowing this I can work hard to be steady and get it closer to centered.

Tach goes with me and his shots are doing much better now too. Five in the black this time. All on the target. Album- Tach shooting
He is shooting my old Crossman air pistol.

My class is next weekend. 20 foot or less. About 150 rounds. I feel comfortable now. I was sweating finding ammunition, but they got a shipment this week and I picked up plenty.

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Postby F9K9 » Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:12 pm

Looking good, Brule! High and right is somewhat of a mystery without seeing what you are doing. Trading the 92 for something a little more user friendly. Maybe, I will bring the Sig Sauer 220 to Moab. Nice single stack in 45 acp. :wink:
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Postby HenryJ » Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:22 pm

Went through the CCW class today. He did make it fun.

We shot through about 200 rounds. All on the same target. The distances were from 3' or less to 21'

Within arms reach, two shots from the waist to body mass. At 7' two to the body mass , two to the head and then one to each hip. 15' three round right hand freehand, then swap to the left and three rounds. Each of these done quickly , but not timed. At 21' shoot for body mass. Each set repeated several times.

Image Image

Final was shooting the card in half from the side at 21'. One gal with a revolver did it in five rounds. Took me a couple-three more than that. Four or five of them took more than 30 rounds, but we all did it.

I am pleased with my Beretta. It grouped better than anyone else out there.

A couple small injuries to the hands of one of the older gentlemen who had a bad habit of putting his thumb in harms way. Automatics are not very forgiving.

I passed with out problems and feel very comfortable with it. Next step is to file the paperwork.

Now I need a good holster that rides high , has a thumb release and doesn't hang. I fought that thing a little today. No way I want to count on it if I have a REAL need.

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Postby F9K9 » Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:42 pm

Congrats!!!! I would look at Blawkhawk and Fobus for ease of use and security.
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Postby HenryJ » Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:07 pm

Fobus:
Paddle holster?
Thumb break paddle?

Belt or paddle?
Roto holster? Is the adjustment needed?

Blackhawk SERPA Matte finish:
SERPA Level 2 - Matte Finish comes with belt and paddle.

Are any of these the answer to a good concealed carry holster?
Is that finger release the way to go?

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Postby 04crewvt » Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:21 pm

be prepared to have a drawer full of holsters before you find the prefect one unless you are very lucky on the first try, If you have a shop around with lots of holsters in stock you might want to see if you can try some on and see how they will work for you. Congrats BTW.
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Postby HenryJ » Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:33 pm

No shops around here with a selection. My old Uncle Mike's works, just not well for concealed carry or a clean draw.
coming from this it will not take much to make me happy.
I kind of like the idea of the finger release on the Serpa Holster.

If the KISS principal applies, then the Fobus looks pretty simple.

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Postby F9K9 » Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:56 pm

HenryJ wrote:.........If the KISS principal applies, then the Fobus looks pretty simple.
Brule I tested one for the agency. It is pretty secure and simple. It will hold when going through brush and such. The BlackHawk is much more secure but, takes a little muscle memory built up. A couple of weeks practicing hitting the release with an unloaded firearm for 5 or 10 min a day will make it feel natural. You'll feel goofy as heck if, you are caught practicing but, it is the way to learn to do it without thinking about it.
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Postby HenryJ » Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:10 pm

So which would you choose? I will adjust easily as I have not set preference.

There is a Blackhawk Standard without the finger release retention system. It comes with both belt and paddle attachments.

There is the SERPA with the finger release.

Then we have the Fobus

Do I need the thumb release for the additional retention? Should I get the roto holster? Paddle or belt?

What would your choice be?

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Postby F9K9 » Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:26 pm

The Fobus is a good holster. I carried it and still do for many years. I carry the BlackHawk now when I want more security.

Image

It is pretty natural to slide the trigger finger down the side and depress the the release. It is a bear to take off from your pants and belt when you want to secure it away from being on you but, that too takes time to get used to. Under $40 and the boys making this stuff are former (and current) operators. If, I see "Black Hawk" on a product, I will lean towards it in a heartbeat.
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Postby HenryJ » Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:03 pm

"pulled the trigger" , so to speak on the Blackhawk Sportster SERPA Holster $24 through LA Police Gear. I just bought some blem tactical pants from them recently and was pleased so they get a little more business.

Thanks for the help! I do appreciate it.

So the paddle slips inside the trousers?

I got a little worried about the bulk of the Serpa holster so I also ordered one of the Blackhawk leather pancake holsters too. It might be easier to conceal. I may be getting closer to that drawer full ;)

Now I need to find a way to justify that really cool internal Lazer :crazy:

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Postby 04crewvt » Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:34 pm

Told you so. If we ever get together I will show you how my freakishly long fingers let me disarm with a Blackhawk from the wrong side. LOL
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Postby F9K9 » Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:55 pm

HenryJ wrote:......So the paddle slips inside the trousers?.................
Yep the paddle goes inside the pants. It will make sense once it arrives. :wink:
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Postby HenryJ » Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:10 pm

I guess I sort of blew past the whole Laser thing. Mine has had a laser on it since soon after I bought it. It is nice in low light and does add some intimidation factor.
At the class The band that holds the grip switch broke. Old rubber and a poor attempt to disable it on my part led to that failure. With the switch flopping around, I decided to remove it.
I thought I could live with out it, but the more I think about it , the more I miss it.
Most holsters do not accommodate a laser very well. That is an argument against having one.

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Postby F9K9 » Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:47 pm

Probably an outdated experience but, when night sights were all the rage many years ago we were handed service weapons equipped with them for low light shooting during an in-service. I was much younger and had enjoyed being the agency's regional "top gun" for almost a decade. I spent to much time using the sights for proper sight alignment and before I knew it the targets were turning back. I dropped shots and making up for them on the next string of fire only made matters worse. My scores dropped using them until I went back to instincts.

Being trained with night sights and lasers from the "git-go" would make a difference, I am sure. I am just unsure about lasers. I tend to treat them as tracer rounds from a rifle. Muzzle flash is bad enough but, I dislike advertising my location in low light situations.
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Postby HenryJ » Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:24 pm

The line points both ways. I have thought about that too.
I think an on/off switch in a convenient location would be a good idea.
Advertising the intent with a nice red dot on the threat sure seems like it could be an advantage in a personal protection situation.
I was a little surprised at just how well shots can be placed with the quick point and shoot. I can see where basic instincts do work. The gun is the same as pointing your finger.

My laser had its good and bad.
It was mounted to the trigger guard so it was significantly lower then the barrel. That means it had a sweet spot. Beyond that the dot was high and inside that the dot was low. I knew this, but if you expect it to hit the dot, you were going to be disappointed.
It activated with a grip switch, so it was on when ever you grip the gun. No off/on switch. You did not have to think to turn it on, but it was on when ever you grab it.
The battery life was very good. I only recall installing fresh batteries once in all the years I've had it.

Things have really changed since I bought mine all those years ago: http://www.lasermax.com/

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Postby HenryJ » Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:27 pm

The Blackhawk SERPA Sportster arrived today. Nice fit. Easy draw. I like it!
Thank you Obi-wan for the recommendation. :bow:

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Postby F9K9 » Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:47 am

I am glad you liked it. It's tough to go wrong with anything from BLACKHAWK and what Mike Noell produces. :thumb:
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Re: Anyone interested in Firearms and/or Edged Weapons?

Postby HenryJ » Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:40 pm

How about gun mods?
I picked up a SW Walther PPK/S. The front sight was useless to me. I just couldn't pick up that little invisible sight.
I figured what do I have to lose. The front sight is very difficult for me to pick up. I might as well not have one.
Replacing them with some good sights requires modification of the slide to remove and dovetail the front. If this doesn't work out I am only out a few dollars worth of .060" fiber optic rod.

Image

I could have really messed things up, but not enough to trash the slide. Plan "B" is that I fill the holes that I drilled. Plan "C" Replace the rear and live with the hole in the front. Plan "D" but new sights and have the slide modified to fit them.

I realize that this is not a target pistol. Point and shoot is the name of the game. I am a creature of habit and put that front sight on my target. I need my gun to conform to the way I am wired to work. I do not wish to waste precious time trying to find the front sight, anything is an improvement. The pictures really don't do this justice.
The upper left is a fair representation of what is seen. In day light they stand out exceptionally. In very low light they still do pretty well. Obviously they do not glow in the dark and require some light to function. Fiber optic rod draws in light from the sides and concentrates it to the ends. I did my best to maximize that with the length of the rod exposed.
Before I did this I took several things into consideration, beyond the escape plans above.

The color of the rod. I decided to use a contrasting color two dot system, as a three dot sight did not look practical. I did not want two dots to blend together.
I had been told that the human eye is more sensitive to green light and reacts less to red. With the two rods together , this seemed to hold true for me.
The rear sight would offer less light as a greater surface area would be hidden due to the manner it would be mounted. It is closer to the eye and even if dimmer, would be easy to see. The red made sense for the rear.
I wanted the front sight to be the one most noticeable. I did my best to maximize the surface area. I even extended its length thinking I could always cut it down if needed. Green appearing brighter helps and I need all the help I can get as the front sight is farther away and needs to be brought between the notch of the rear.
I am not working on a classic collectible gun. This is a tool that needed some work to function better for me. If this is not the answer to that end, I will take the next step and have some high dollar replacement sights installed. Nothing ventured , nothing gained.

It is really nice to set the green dot on top of the red. Now we will see if it is an improvement or mistake. Time will tell.

I just can't leave anything alone :)

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Re: Anyone interested in Firearms and/or Edged Weapons?

Postby F9K9 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:06 am

HenryJ wrote:How about gun mods?.................. I just can't leave anything alone :)
:roflmao:
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Re: Anyone interested in Firearms and/or Edged Weapons?

Postby HenryJ » Sun May 09, 2010 8:54 pm

Finally a new addition to my cabinet. I have been lacking a big hurt to shoot rifle. One to take big north American game.
Image
Today I added a Marlin 1895XLR 45/70. I am really pleased. It has been on my list to do something like this for a very long time. That completes my needs for rifles. Slung, scoped and ready to go. Now to make some time to sight it in.
I have never tried one. I am told it is more a push than hit. I'll use some light rounds to get a feel. It will handle the big loads too though. The Buffalo Bore 405 grain is on par with the 458 magnum, or so they say. That will get your attention.

The barrel looks more like a shotgun than a rifle :lol:

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Re: Anyone interested in Firearms and/or Edged Weapons?

Postby F9K9 » Mon May 10, 2010 7:21 pm

OMG!!!!
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Re: Anyone interested in Firearms and/or Edged Weapons?

Postby HenryJ » Mon May 10, 2010 7:54 pm

You're welcome to try it out any time.
The Buffalo Bore ammunition goes up to 500 grain. I hear good reports from the flex tipped Hornady LEVERevolution, so I am going to try it. 325 grain and priced right. Over 3500 Ft.-lbs. muzzle energy. That should stop anything in north America easily. Most African game would be possible with the right loads.

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Re: Anyone interested in Firearms and/or Edged Weapons?

Postby HenryJ » Sun May 23, 2010 1:25 pm

HenryJ wrote:... I added a Marlin 1895XLR 45/70.
What a pleasure to shoot!
Image
Not bad at all. The bore sight finally arrived and the weather cooperated. I have a friend who is an avid shooter, so we went out to his place to take advantage of his bench and marked target distances. I put a few rounds through it and zeroed pretty nicely. It is a firm recoil, but not uncomfortable.

I put a few rounds through the 30-30 too.
Image
Tach shot the 22LR for the first time and did very well.
Image
I had to make a quick change of the butt plate, as the factory one was broken. It had been so long I had forgotten that. The 30-30 got a Limb-Saver and the 22LR received its butt plate since that was all we could find on a Sunday at Bimart.

We were pressed for time so we did not shoot as much as I would have liked.
Now that they are sighted in and fixed up, I think we will go out again soon.

That 45/70 is now my favorite rifle. The scope is very easy to acquire. It feels good and you don't need binoculars to see a hole the size of your finger in the target :)

EDIT: Added the Wild West Guns Big Loop Lever-
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Re: Anyone interested in Firearms and/or Edged Weapons?

Postby green02crew » Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:19 pm

Picked up a S&W 6906 Shorty 9mm limited run Performance Center. Low serial # and only 200 made. In great shape for sure. The poor quality cell pictures don't do it justice.
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Re: Anyone interested in Firearms and/or Edged Weapons?

Postby HenryJ » Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:05 am

Sweet looking! :rock:

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Re: Anyone interested in Firearms and/or Edged Weapons?

Postby DLP » Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:00 pm

I like your 30-30. I have an early 70s Marlin 336cs too. Passed it down to my son last year.

I just picked up a Ruger LCP with the Crimson Trace laser. Excellant little backup carry. Been burning up the reloading componets breaking it in.

My son and I also bought a couple Ruger single 6 a couple weeks ago. Mine in 17 cal and his in 22/22mag. Fun squrial plinkers.
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Re:

Postby fallvitals » Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:48 pm

HenryJ wrote:Fobus:
Paddle holster?
Thumb break paddle?

Belt or paddle?
Roto holster? Is the adjustment needed?

Blackhawk SERPA Matte finish:
SERPA Level 2 - Matte Finish comes with belt and paddle.

Are any of these the answer to a good concealed carry holster?
Is that finger release the way to go?



Im way late to this thread. I have the serpa you listed. Very nice OC holster. I personally wouldnt CC it, unless I had some long shirts. And i was say a officer that might be in chases, have my shirt fly open and some one grab for it.

My setup for CC is a beltman.com belt, and a crossbreed holster. Ugly but its awesome. No fancy rention system, the gun molding is very nice, tight, when you have it on the way its made plug being agaisnt your body keeps it soundly in place. Only complaint I have is I cant really drive with it holstered. But I have a service .45acp XD in it.. smaller will be better but until I get something a little smaller thats what I got.

http://www.crossbreedholsters.com/

A good thick gun belt is a neccessity.

Heres my serpa with the paddle attached to my badlands 2200 pack.

Image

And my favorite firearm "toy" with my neice. too big, link only. sorry.

http://photos.imageevent.com/rc_racer_0 ... C04549.jpg
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